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OWJones

Why you should pay more for name brand vinyls

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This recent picture is part of a decal I made for my sister a little over a year ago - it was cut from EnduraGloss 500 pink vinyl, which is Sign Warehouse's house brand.   When I first started out, I didn't know hardly anything about the different types of vinyls and assumed that a vinyl that was advertised to last 6 years outdoors would actually last 6 years outdoors - silly me.

 

This decal has been on the back window of her truck for 13.5 months so far, far short of the 60 month life span advertised for this product.  You can see that the vinyl has shrunk back and exposed the adhesive underneath, also the edge of the vinyl that has pulled away from the adhesive has turned brittle and is all chipped and rough.  Admittedly, she does live on a dirt/gravel road and it has been covered with dirt and dust a couple of hundred times since installation, but there is no reason why it should look as bad as it does.  Well, there is a reason, and that reason is that I didn't know better and bought the cheapest vinyl available.

 

I'm grateful that I didn't sell any of the decals I made using this vinyl and moved on to using Oracal soon after this was made.  I'm going to keep this picture on my computer as a constant reminder not to cheap out on anything that I expect to last and especially on anything that I want to put my name on.  She has a different decal, but the same color in Oracal 651 on the other end of the back window and it still looks brand new - it's only about 11 months old, but it's a night and day difference between the two...

 

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If you are doing a sign especially you should use a premium vinyl . For stickers 651 or equivalent should be fine . I see a lot of sign faces done with intermediate opaque vinyl that is why I get to replace them LOL . The appropriate vinyl should always be used and you charge for it so use a good vinyl .

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 I toyed with Greenstar for about a month last year and I still replace anything I see that we did with it free of charge. Hope it didn't cost me any customers.

 

Jay

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not wortht he penny or two per decal to mess with anything but oracal,3m, fdc IMHO

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Great Info, Thanks Guys, Since I'm new to this vinyl World I most likely would have at some time have tried the cheap way out and in the end would have Cost me more. I bought the GreenStar Starter Pack and will say I have used most of it on My own Decals and a couple friends and have since starting buying the Good Stuff,, Oracle 651 and 751, and for Heat Transfers Siser EazyWeed.

Thanks Again for The knowledge.

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That Greenstar price is tempting but not worth the trouble it causes.

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So 3M is a good vinyl? I'm looking into them to do the mad hatter window advertisement. I looked at oracle also but the supplier here doesn't carry them.

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I had some 3m white and it liked to lift off the liner while cutting. Avery, FDC, Oracal not in any particular order

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I will stand by all 3 -I know you aren't going to the advantage open house - I have gotten 3 calls, numerous mailings, just to far for what it is when so busy - you are much closer and have a real need.  but I know that isn't the one you are going to because they don't sell roland . . . .hmmm

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I have only used Oracal 631, 651, and sisser until last week when I finally put the 3M sample roll I've had for a while to use. I was overall very impressed by the 3M material. Very strong and retains it's shape. I even had a piece fold over and touch (adhesive to adhesive) and I pulled them apart without any damage. If that happens with the Oracal I have it is instantly ruined. The only weird thing about the 3M is that my R-tape paper app tape does not stick to the backing at all. I layed the taped pieces on the floor in a pile and put paper weights on it to keep it from curling up. It installed like a dream though. I just ordered a roll of Oracal 751 to replace the black 651 I ran out of so I can test it out. I would stick with the 3M if I could afford it but I only see it in very long rolls that I can't really afford right now.

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Any particular issues with GreenStar?  I purchase a bit getting started, but have switched to Oracal for my second purchase.  Any reason to NOT use the remaining GreenStar?

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For short term signage like banners and coroplast, Greenstar is fine. Fact is, ANY calendared vinyl, including  Oracal, will shrink over time. If you don't want shrinkage, use CAST.

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Dakota it's Midwest Sign's open house or whatever you want to call it. The guys there are pretty nice at least over the phone and have helped with researching if Roland is worth my investiment which a

I already knew it was. No pressure or anything to finance or buy one so far from them. Now tomorrow might be a different story. However they might be getting lots of sales from me on vinyl, and coroplast etc we will see.

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Only used 3 or 4 3m products but their white gave me nothing but grief. Love their reflective and use it for repair work on local sheriff's cars. May just of been an old roll or something.

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Just to clarify, I am interested in multiple brands for variety of colors.  I'm creating vinyl cuts for RC modelers and a lot of times, they need to match a particular covering or paint.  Not trying to do anything on the cheap.  I like the color coverage of Oracal + Greenstar and would like to replace the GreenStar with something else that compliments the Oracal color selection.

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any house brand like greenstar, procut, etc are intended to make more money for the "house" - not because it is a superior grade of vinyl

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RBeaubien, Ebay has a ton of high end vinyl rolls available in small widths. This might be ideal for RC cars because of their size. I see a lot of 2 - 4" wide rolls of 3M and other brands. Here is one seller but there is more out there like this.  http://myworld.ebay.com/stickerman5000&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SELLERID&_trksid=p3984.m1543.l2533

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Guest

Hello Everyone - 

 

Banner John hit the nail on the head with his reference concerning cast vs. calendared products. A cast product will always be a better option when you are looking for something that will not peel at some point. This is due to the fact that "cast" and "calendared" are referring to the manufacturing process of an item (and not just vinyl products as I am sure you have heard of "cast" being used with other things like metal tools and ceramic items).

 

Take a look at a video we made here at USCutter for a quick explanation of the difference between some of the vinyl we sell, including the "calendared" Greenstar and Oracal 631/651 as well as the "cast" Oracal 751/951.

 

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I have used Avery's intermediate (700 Series, formerly known as A6) for years for general decas - PHENOMENAL STUFF that provides a great profit margin.  Avery used to have big problems with their high performance vinyls.  They would shrink prematurely leaving angry customers for you to have to deal with and expensive jobs that had to be redone out of your pocket.  They denied there was ever a problem, despite an insane amount of evidence.  That pushed me to 3M's products, and I haven't looked back.  For vehicle graphics I stick to 3M products with comply - there is simply none better.  For wraps, again, 3M high performance with comply, and the matching 3M laminate.  If it aint broke, don't fix it.  

 

I firmly believe everything Oracal makes is garbage.  Complete...total....garbage.  I recently installed some customer supplied (Oracal) stripes on a Mustang.  The job should have took 2 hours...it took 6.  Nightmare.  I will never use or install anything with Oracal products ever again.  A lot of mail order graphics places (think racing stripe kits) use Oracal vinyl with 3M premask.  The customer sees 3M and assumes it's quality product.  Such a shame.

 

I believe you can make it with low cost cutters, I have done so for years.  I had a fair amount of time with a Graphtec and I loved it, just not enough to drop the coin to upgrade.  It helps that I have a technical pc build/repair background and have so far been able to trouble shoot anything that's come up.  However, when it comes to material and substrates - go with the best, or fail with the rest.

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