Wildgoose 4,200 Posted May 11, 2013 Well free advice is definitely free advice. I asked him if he was very familiar with copywrite law and he said he actually was. He is a fairly respected attorney in our area and owns his own firm. He offered to get me copies of the rulings used to define current fair use act law but I told him I wasn't that serious about it at this point. His main point about the design is the parody aspect. The best part of my design is it's more self-deprecating humor than anything (Hardley vs Harley) and only furthers the theme that a real Harley is awesome. (wish I had one) He explained some finer points of the law that basically was about how they determine if there has been any harm (financial or to their product image etc.) and made it clear that while he was certain I was within the fair use act protection there was still no telling if they would decide to sue over it which would certainly end with me trying to defend myself against a huge corporation with tons of money and sometimes money wins even if its in the wrong. I know you guys are probably rooting me on to face the dragon and in truth it actually sounds almost fun to shake my butt at them going "Neeneer neeneer neeneer" but then sound reasoning seeps in and I realize how dangerous that might be. So... Yes I may actually produce a few t-shirts with my design but the truth is I am a sign guy, and a small one at that, not a garment/t-shirt guy although I dabble here and there. I still hold by my original point that actual copying of legit TM logos can get you busted even if they are given away for nothing but you can make anything you want for your own use. I also appologize to the original poster for hijacking this thread. If in doubt be sure to read the legal disclaimer in my signature, ha ha! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted May 11, 2013 If you think somehow using that design is a "parody" if you are producing goods with it is unknown to me. Good luck in the future with your attorney friend cause going this route you will need him, (but I suggest you contact a different one). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted May 11, 2013 How is it NOT a parody? Have you looked at it? It says Hardley not Harley, maybe I should drop the "e" and spell hardly correctly if you have missed the humor all this time. You are probably in more danger of getting in trouble using Mopar in your user name than I am getting sued over this logo. I changed the cycles to scooters to make sure to catch anyones eye that "hey that's not right" and make them re-read things. On top of that if I promote this at all it will be as a silly t-shirt not an actual motorcyle line. The only way this thing would be TM infringement was if I was chinese and didn't know how to spell proper english. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted May 11, 2013 You have effected change in my life. Here is my revised design for the better clarification of my own brand of humor. I'm sorry if you don't see the parody but to me its hilarious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokem 35 Posted May 11, 2013 Progress and discoveries are made on the backs of those willing to take the risks AND fight the battles.Many are not willing to take up a crusade.Personally, I simply want to get my operation to a pointwhere I can travel, make a few Dollars, and travel again.I am retired now, and already do swap meets regularly.Decals, will allow me to lighten my physical operation by 95%.They will also allow me to serve a vast market, instead ofa very tiny, tiny specialty group.Folks here have a great deal of experience, and have likelygiven you exceptionally valuable information.I'm sure most will be interested in your experiencesi the trademark, copyright fringes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monkey 252 Posted May 11, 2013 Yeah just like that attorney, every person I talk to that knows someone in the military is special forces too. You can argue it all day but H-D has sued for the same thing. If your parody is worth thousands of dollars to you......have fun with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted May 11, 2013 Even w/o the words that you claim parody from the own the bar and shield design and you in get bored and do a little research you will find that when rubbed in their faces they will go to court and usually win. Also unlike criminal court where you're either 100% or 100% innocent civil court ruling can involve degrees of guilt and facing these guys even 5% ruling against me would bankrupt me and many generations of decendents. I'm exaggerating but you get the idea. When I see a mean dog on a chain I don't wave a bone at him to see how far he can reach. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted May 11, 2013 ask yourself the basic question when you look at your parody does it make you thing of the companies logo?I'm done here - let him learn the hard way and take up that battle - maybe he will win before he is bankrupt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted May 11, 2013 The only winners will be the lawyers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted May 11, 2013 I am waiting to hear what HD has to say about this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
petroman2012 168 Posted May 11, 2013 Never, never UNDER-ESTIMATE anyone or anything....period... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted May 11, 2013 I did some heavy reading today and I think you guys are right. As I read more about the whole aspect of using parody as a defense against infringement I am noticing that the key word is "defense" which would infer a lawsuit. All of the cases I read were brought on by someone using someone elses logo for purposes that in many cases were deemed covered by the fair use act and I do think my attourney friend was a little brash in telling me it was "Iron clad". I think if I was actually going to make millions with this thing then the risk might be worth the chance but I'm not so I'm going to forget about the whole idea. I'll wear it on a sweatshirt and get cool coments and if someone wants one they're going to be out of luck. Having a commercial value seems to start to tip the scales in the parody defense whereas if I was just trying to make some sort of point about HD without gain I would probably have more protection. I actually like HD, just can't afford to ride one. That's where the whole idea of the logo came from in the first place. It's too bad because I think it's a great joke but not one I'm willing to go to battle over even if it does seem wrong to let the big corporate stomp on the little guy yet again. I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong and its only a fool who won't learn something new once in a while. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted May 11, 2013 The truth is none of know everything but when we all brainstorm on something like this you can usually count on honest answers. Hell lawyers that specialize in copyright cases never know for sure where they stand till judgment is given. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smokem 35 Posted May 12, 2013 You dunn good Grasshoppa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wildgoose 4,200 Posted May 12, 2013 I guess I'd rather learn something on a forum in a theoretical discussion than in the school of hard knocks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted May 12, 2013 Hard knocks can hurt, around here it's usually just glancing blows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites