sleeveofwizzard

What temperature is too hot for vinyl installation?

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Hello again,

 

I have been battling with a 4 layer piece of vinyl all day and have been scratching my head as to why it isn't working. I keep getting air bubbles and wrinkles in the second and third layers. I have tried to install wet and dry and have had no luck. Wet worked a little better but kept drying while I was positioning. If a flood it with app fluid I can get it placed correctly but then when I remove the app tape it pulls on some spots and creates bubbles. I just moved into a new building and it is hotter inside then I would like. Here in California the summers are hot and I know I can only do outside installations in the early morning or at night. 

 

I want to know if anyone else has had trouble with heat or cold when layering or installing vinyl and if so what temperature is too hot?

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I stop when my hands start to burn especially on tinted windows and dark surfaces. When possible and doing auto glass I ask them to leave the car running with the a/c on max.

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I've always had to let go before melting point. You must have a higher pain threshold than me besides it's hard to work with tears in your eyes.

 

Seriously though as long as I can touch the work area I always find a way to keep working but the hotter it is the harder it is.

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My experience has been that anything over 85° and your adhesive seems to develop magnetic properties and can defy gravity in it's attempt to permanently latch onto the first surface it can find.  If you're indoors, you can try setting up a fan and spritzing the surface with rubbing alcohol and the evaporation will draw heat out of the surface - it may take 3 or 4 'coats' of alcohol to cool it down to workable temps, but it does work and shouldn't affect the surface you're working on.  It won't work as well in extremely high humidities, but it should work in any temperature/humidity conditions you're semi-comfortable working in.

 

If you live/work anywhere near a restaurant supply store, see if they have any cooling spray - pastry chefs use that to quickly cool chocolate and sugar sculptures - it's food safe and shouldn't (theoretically!) have anything that will be a problem for vinyl or most surfaces - it's similar to the stuff used in "Canned Air Dusters" but doesn't contain anything harmful, or the nasty additives they use to deter people from sniffing it for recreational purposes.

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Thanks guys,

 

Yeah I have been able to work the bubbles out of the last two car window pieces I did in high heat. I was about to blow up yesterday trying to layer vinyl on vinyl inside my shop. I share the building with two other businesses and I am on the side with the high ceilings and sunlight. It seems like I have better luck when the temperature is below a certain point but it could just be a theory. I am going to try installing the bottom layer of vinyl onto the the window first then layer the second, and third onto that and see if it helps. 

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OK guys I need help! I installed this today and got tons of bubbles. I used app fluid to apply the yellow on top of the black and I didn't see any bubbles. When I installed it onto the window dry I got a million air bubbles. The piece took me over an hour to edit. Then probably 1.5 hours to cut and weed and layer and install. Now its time to do it all over. I did five windows with text only using 3M vinyl I got as a free sample, not a single air bubble. Did this large logo on one window with 651 and it looks my toddler did it. What am I doing wrong?

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How did you install center hinge, top hinge :huh: btw I keep a fresh razor blade in my install box just the slightest poke and no more bubble

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Center hinge dry install. I poked a BUNCH of bubbles but you could see where I poked um and there was just too many to fix them. I haven't been back too see it but I have to install two more logos this evening. I hope it works out better for these.

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Is it possible to do the layup on the glass. Dealing with 1 thin layer is easier than 2 layer thick decal.  Try it wet with paper tape and before you peel tape wet it down with app fluid to help release so you're not pulling against the vinyl so hard. Some of it looks like technique issues with the squeegee and that is 1 spot I hate to advise on because each install is unique and requires slightly different angles and force etc... Best bet for now is try it wet.

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Alrighty! I installed wet and I got it done with only one small bubble. Here comes the good part, IT WAS TERRIBLE! The install took me hours. Heres how it went. 

 

I positioned the the bottom layer (large, complex design with lots of small detail) and put a thin piece of blue painters tape in the center (top to bottom). I peeled back the app tape with vinyl on it from the backing on one side. Cut the backing, sprayed the adhesive side of the vinyl and glass with app fluid. I started to apply the vinyl by holding tension on the app tape near the glass and squeegeeing from the center up and center down slightly moving towards the outer edge of the piece. After 5 or 6 swipes the blue painters tape came loose from the bottom because the app fluid ran down the glass. The whole thing shifted and messed up the placement. By this time the app tape was soggy and had a bunch of wrinkles from being wet. I decided I could just move the individual little pieces by hand but the vinyl would not stick to the glass. I even wiped the glass with a paper towel but because the app tape was so soggy it just wouldn't release. I took me a really long time to get the vinyl to stick on the window. Luckily I was able to position all the tiny little pieces after they finally began to stick. The second side wasn't much better. I was able to keep the  position a little better but still couldn't get the tape to let go of the vinyl. I don't know what my problem is. I have watched tons of video and tried to do different methods but whenever I use Oracle 651 wet or with more than one layer it is a nightmare. I have done tons of stuff with 631 and now even used some 3M material with no issues. With this same job I installed two words, one layer, dry install and they came out perfect. Then I layered a small three piece yellow banner over the nightmare I talked about earlier and had trouble with that too. I tried to instal wet with app tape and couldn't get it to stick to the bottom layer of vinyl that was already on the glass. I decided to pull the three pieces off the app tape and place them by hand. This worked much better but I can never get the fluid to just work. It seems that even after I spray the back of the vinyl and where I'm installing it, the vinyl still sticks and I can't move it without pulling it off completely. 

 

I just don't know. I am going to watch some more videos but I swear I am doing things the same way I see them doing. I only have paper R tape, Oracle 631, 651 and some 3M Scotchcal Electrocut. I would hate to have to buy all new vinyl or app tape because I have spent a lot of money on different sizes and colors but I need to figure out what the problem is, PLEASE HELP!

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I use blue painter tape for all my hinges, have used tons of 651, and R paper.  Your media is fine.  You just need some practice.  IMHO, speaking from experience - the worst thing you can do is go from watching a video straight to laying down a large job.  I've crumpled up and thrown away YARDS and yards of vinyl while adjusting my skills to bigger job sizes.  Just takes some time and practice.  

 

Make sure you are rock solid about getting your app tape / paper on your vinyl perfect.  If you botch that... the rest of the job gets a lot harder.  For small decals, I use the typical roll holder everyone on here has built - but for long runs (in the interest of saving time and tape) I use a piece of wood with velcro on it (homemade big squeegee) to put down my paper and that tool has saved me a lot of time / trouble / money.

 

 

but just in case, here is a quick snapshot of my process:

 

place hinge

peel backing away from first side to apply

lay first apply side over the other side so it don't stick to anything it isn't supposed to

cut paper off

spray area to apply too

spray sticky side of exposed vinyl

squeegee vinyl into place

remove hinge

repeat for other side

squeegee entire project again real good

spray top of paper lightly and wait a minute (optional - sometimes it helps)  ((most of the time maybe))

pull away paper at 45 degrees

 

My first 2-3 big signs / banners were a trainwreck. 

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I pull my tape straight back on itself parallel to the substrate to reduce the chance of lifting and bubbles

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Thanks guys, the thing is I have been playing around with vinyl for a few years. I have layered wet / dry with 631 and done lots of different things with it but for some reason I always fight with 651. I watched some videos last night with people using 651 and see them doing what you described and what I try to do. I did exactly what you described but for some reason it went haywire. I will keep practicing but I am just frustrated because it seems like I am starting all over again. 

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