gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 Ok so I am a member of ABATE (American Bikers for Awareness, Training, and Education) and the chapter I am apart of, Freedom First Riders, has offered me a deal on cutting and selling their logos. They want a 15% kickback of all the sales from their logos/name. So basically i will have to keep records of any and all sales of their related items, and give them 15% every quarter.. Now we aren't talking lots and lots of money, just a few decals here and there. Stuff for members vehicles and bikes, etc. Eventually when i get a heat press and can do shirts and stuff for them too. What are your thoughts on this? Is 15% a fair price?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 28, 2013 would work for me - I bet they would prefer a percentage of sales as opposed to kickbacks though lOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 well thats what i meant...maybe my wording is just off, lol.... so like on a small $10 decal, i would give them $1.50.....so in theory would i be better off to just raise the price to $11.50? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 28, 2013 actually with paypal fees that is about the same as selling on ebay - so not a bad deal - with the cost of materials I would just sell them for the 10. and get more sales Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwp99 283 Posted April 28, 2013 If you raise the price by 15% to 11.50 and they take 15% of that you'll owe them $1.72, that gives you $9.78. raise the price to 12.00, that will give you your $10.20 after their 15%. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 If you raise the price by 15% to 11.50 and they take 15% of that you'll owe them $1.72, that gives you $9.78. raise the price to 12.00, that will give you your $10.20 after their 15%. actually with paypal fees that is about the same as selling on ebay - so not a bad deal - with the cost of materials I would just sell them for the 10. and get more sales both are good ideas...hmm....it will only be for their logos and stuff, and most of the customers will be chapter members, all people i am friends with and ride motorcycle with anyways...and im sure most of them will be cash transactions anyway and i will have to do a manual paper receipt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 28, 2013 heck if they are multi color we can print them and you will probably make more money that way! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 lol... really??? if so, i may take u up on that, lol...i dont have a printer and may need to sub some stuff out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 28, 2013 Several members do it that way - especially if there is a lot of fine detail or multiple colors - cheaper and easier for them - I just did a large cut vinyl order and with the detail i definately should have charged more - but was for a church and they had a bad print job done when I started doing there work a few years ago - I seriously need to send them some sample of my print work - they was doing decals for atv's and they were not laminated - so when going thru the bruch it would wear terribly so we redid all there work in cut vinyl but i am sure a laminated print would take care of the problem now - normally I have people wanting to laminate short term stuff that doesn't need it but long term or where wear is invovled always lam. I have unlam stuff on vehicles printed almost 3 years ago on side windows of vehicles without a problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 Heres a multi colored version of their logo.. http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s675/gc_extreme/VINYL/20130428_002330_zps7c47139d.jpg I know i will be doing alot of them in solid colors like black and white etc..but would like to offer a mulicolored one too. That one is our main logo but we also have a few othe graphics like skulls and etc with the freedom first riders name. A local business named Ameican Solutions for Business is doing the shirts and hoodies.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dakotagrafx 7,297 Posted April 28, 2013 man - with some clean artwork to start with I can see that being taken to the next level with some blue clouds, sunburst red etc, Gotta go for tonight but last thing - on the artwork it is pretty basic - I would still have one of the pro's digitize it and clean it up before cutting - it will be an ongoing order that will make you money and starting with a very clean vector will make it much easier - you will be greatful you have that graphtec with the spoke design! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 28, 2013 Thanks...they are suppose to send me good files, vector files, so i can do them... Im assuming the company that made the shirts has a vector file. We were having a copyright issue with the previous company that did our shirts and hoodies. This logo and the other skulls logo was drawn up many years ago by a member and they gave it to a company called Cowing Robards to make us shirts and stuff and that company thought they owned the images...and gave our president hell trying to get them back... Anyway have a good nite. Ttyl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr300s 1,272 Posted April 28, 2013 I would also straighten the words expect the unexpected its crooked... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coaster36 327 Posted April 29, 2013 Thanks...they are suppose to send me good files, vector files, so i can do them... Im assuming the company that made the shirts has a vector file. We were having a copyright issue with the previous company that did our shirts and hoodies. This logo and the other skulls logo was drawn up many years ago by a member and they gave it to a company called Cowing Robards to make us shirts and stuff and that company thought they owned the images...and gave our president hell trying to get them back... Anyway have a good nite. Ttyl Dont expect a vector from the company that has the file. Chances are good that they were given a jpeg or a piece of paper with the image on it. They then had to spend the time and money to clean it up and convert it to be usable. I wouldn't just hand that file over either. "You want a copy of the file?" "Sure, here you should be able to use this 5x5 jpeg and if you're nice it won't have 'SAMPLE' written through it" To me that file, is the intellectual property of the printer not the artist. He may have done the initial artwork but he didn't digitize it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 29, 2013 So your saying if u take someone elses artwork and digitize it then its now yours?? If u do the work to chage it to a different format or medium then its yours?? So i can take a jpg and turn it into a bmp and now its all mine??? Or i can draw a harley logo and now its mine cuz i did the work? Im sorry but thats not how it works.... If that was so, then simply cutting an image into vinyl is changing its format/medium and u could legally cut anything.. If i draw up an original drawing and give it to someone to digitize, they do not own the copyright to that drawing, i do. Otherwise i could digitize the Mona Lisa and say i own it and have the right to use it... Besides the company has already sent me the eps files, so no worries... Yes they could choose not to give me the eps files, but they cant legally use the files without permission...cuz its still copyrighted by the original creator.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted April 29, 2013 When you take a job for a customer who doesn't provide you with what used to be called "Camera Ready Art", and you have to vectorize, clean up, and otherwise manipulate the image to get it into a usable format, then you own the IP on the new art, but not on the design itself, that copyright still resides with the original artist. The digital image that you create belongs to you. If the customer wants you to provide them with an un-watermarked, high quality, digital version of the art when you're done, then they need to specify that up front and include that in the original price quoted. You are under no obligation to give them that file for free. Copyright law also prohibits you from using their design to produce products for someone else without the permission of the original art's copyright holder. There are LOTS of customers who ask you to clean something up, then ask for a proof, and then take your proof to someone who undercuts you on price because they now have a clean image to work from and don't have to charge for that time spent. This is like paying a wedding photographer to take pictures and then trying to insist that they have to give you all the negatives/digital files, too, so you can take them to WalMart and have them print them for you cheaper. Smart graphic artists and photographers withhold their originals so that this doesn't happen to them. All of your straw man arguments are without merit and have already been discussed and discarded before. If I take a picture of the Mona Lisa, I can't claim copyright of the Mona Lisa, but I can claim copyright on my picture of the Mona Lisa. If you want to use my picture of Mona for some reason, then you need to negotiate a license with me, not Leonardo da Vinci, and not with the Louvre. It is possible to take a copyrighted design and transform it, via "Fair Use" into a new piece of art and claim copyright on that and not violate the copyright of the original - but it's only under very specific conditions, there is a grey area of how much transformation must occur, and it's entirely at the discretion of the judge that is overseeing your copyright violation trial to determine if it is transformed enough to qualify. In other words, you should probably avoid it at all costs unless you have a huge bankroll and a lawyer on speed-dial. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted April 29, 2013 Weird, the national ABATE logo is not being utilized as-is for all chapters. They all have their own thing going on, some with variations of the national logo, some with completely different graphics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 29, 2013 There is a national logo, then each state has their own logo, and each chapter can have their own logos... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 29, 2013 Owjones, go post that in the "do not post copyrighted " thread...this thread was about me giving the chapter a percentage of sales.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OWJones 1,981 Posted April 29, 2013 So your saying if u take someone elses artwork and digitize it then its now yours??If u do the work to chage it to a different format or medium then its yours?? So i can take a jpg and turn it into a bmp and now its all mine??? Or i can draw a harley logo and now its mine cuz i did the work? Im sorry but thats not how it works.... If that was so, then simply cutting an image into vinyl is changing its format/medium and u could legally cut anything.. If i draw up an original drawing and give it to someone to digitize, they do not own the copyright to that drawing, i do. Otherwise i could digitize the Mona Lisa and say i own it and have the right to use it... Besides the company has already sent me the eps files, so no worries... Yes they could choose not to give me the eps files, but they cant legally use the files without permission...cuz its still copyrighted by the original creator.. Owjones, go post that in the "do not post copyrighted " thread...this thread was about me giving the chapter a percentage of sales.. Uh, hello? Did you not read what YOU YOURSELF posted before I posted? And I'd appreciate it if you don't try and tell me how to use the forums. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted April 29, 2013 Popcorn please Jay 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 30, 2013 That was in response to coasters remark about maybe the company wouldnt give me the files....and the TOPIC of MY THREAD got hijacked..... The TOPIC of MY THREAD is about giving back a percentage of sales.... Im not telling you how to use the forums....im asking that MY THREAD get back on topic.... Or are u just trolling? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted April 30, 2013 Let me weigh in here -- First of all, the amount of money being discussed seems relatively miniscule, and as a matter of principle, if I were in your shoes, I would simply say that I'll DONATE $120 in advance to ABATE ($10 a month) and then make it known that I'll informally keep track of the proceeds from the decals over the coming year, and if it turns out that I've profited more than $1000, then I will just make up the difference in the coming year, while continuing the arrangement of making decals as needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcextreme 475 Posted April 30, 2013 Yeah that might work...but its not to the state abate its to our local chapter.... And if i pay or donate that $120...thats still no garuantee i will even sale that much....what if i dont? Now my business would be more in the hole... Right now i have about $2200 invested in my vinyl side of my business and i have made about $100 in sales so im not even close to making a profit yet.....so to be going and giving them $120 in hopes i make some sales on their logos seems like a bad decision right now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaybyrd 3,770 Posted April 30, 2013 I believe what you originally stated about percentage is fair since you have nothing to lose that way if you don't sell any and since you said they already supplied artwork you really have nothing invested in this. Wonder if I can get Harley or Monster to do this for me... Help put me on the map. Jay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
