Sublimation, Direct Garment Printing - Heat Applied Vinyl print

[tammy h 6]

I have some curiosities and the more I read the more confused I become...

 

I have been really considering looking at a sublimation printer to do t-shirts/ sweatshirts etc. I have recently purchased (thank you to all of your advice) a heat press. I have ordered some sample vinyl and am in the process of ordering some more. I have recently talked to a woman who ran her own direct garment printing business and had some really cool work. I read that the direct garment printing requires 100% cotton but that the sublimation will only print on poly blends. Is this true?

 

 I looked up pricing on the direct garment printers and needless to say- they are extremely expensive compared to the sublimation printers I can buy... so I am definitely leaning towards sublimation but she mentioned to me something about the direct garments do better detailing than the other printers?

 

To add to the confusion- I am not sure which type of printer you need to print on the heat applied vinyls?

 

Sorry for all the questions- AGAIN...

Tammy

[Friedrich07 16]

Direct to Garment (DTG) printing is quite expensive to get into. For most people it is more cost effective and you get a better ROI to contract with someone who owns a DTG printer. I am not sure if DTG requires 100% cotton but I am sure that sublimation will only work with polyester fabrics. Thats because the sublimation process actually causes the ink to become a gas and be absorbed into the pours of the polyester. For sublimation printing you need a printer that does not use heat to transfer ink the Ricoh printers and Epson printers both use vibration to transfer ink so they work great. I would reccomend using a  CIS (countinuous ink system) with the epson rather than the sublijet cartridges but everyone has their preference. I am still doing research as to which is actually more cost effective however I seem to get the feeling that Ricohs are preferred by most serious printers. Cobra ink seems to have some nice dye sub systems and UScutter carries the Ricohs.

 

For printing heat transfers you need a pigment ink system those a quite a bit cheaper I really have not done a whole lot of research or work with those so someone else might have a better answer as far as durability ect. Honestly though do some searching and browsing you will find almost all your answer that way.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

We have been doing shirts for a few years now and after much trial and error (as well as 3 workforce 1100 in the dumpster) this is what I have come up with:

1: for all white shirts except 100% poly we use jetpro soft stretch transfers printed on an epson printer, currently a smaller workforce 435 all in one. Had larger format printer and almost never needed the larger size so I consolidated into all in 1 no more seperate scanner or copier to deal with) Look at cobraink packages and stay with pigment ink for best results.

 

2: unless doing large quantities I prefer the Ricoh line of printers for sublimation because you can leave it on the shelf for weeks if you're slow or on vacation, etc. and it prints first time every time. The 3 WF1100's mentioned above all had printhead failures even when we made sure to run them at least once a week. I believe epson is an awesome printer if used almost daily which is why we bought the 435 for shirts because we use it for everday printing also, never has time to set around and dry up. But the Ricoh was a necessity because honestly I don't sublimate enough to keep an epson from drying out and ink isn't that cheap just to waste on test pages every couple of days.

 

3: If you venture into off white and dark shirts I use Alpha Dark but that's just my personal preference of whites most people agree on JPSS.

 

Thanks

Jay

[MadHatterGraphix 1,258]

Most direct to garment printers need 100% cotton I did see some dtg ink for polyester somewhere but never looked into it.  it is expensive even an old DTG costs $5000 or more. As for dye sub you use 100% polyester you can go the 50/50 blend but most of the dye will wash out and give a washed out look. I have been using an Epson C88 with a cis system for about a year testing sublimation all products out and haven't had any negative results accept for paper issues never go cheap on the sub paper. As for the CIS system I can't tell you if I'm saving money due to I haven't ran out yet but I believe you can buy a bag of ink or bottle and refill the CIS system twice compared to the ink cartridges. Just don't get the refillable cartridges its not worth the effort or mess that can be created when filing them when with a CIS system you just pour the bottle in.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

On my 435 from cobraink it has their cis installed and no problems on filling as the tanks are mounted on the side of the printer not in it. +1 for quality paper I ordered some off ebay one time and it looked like cardstock. If it's not super smooth and shiny on 1 side DON'T use it. Also I know I don't speak for everyone on this but I bought 2 cis kits 1 for 1100 and 1 for c88 and neither worked even as close to as well as cobraink setup. Wish I had heard of them to begin with could of saved some cash along the way.

 

Jay

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

We have been doing shirts for a few years now and after much trial and error (as well as 3 workforce 1100 in the dumpster) this is what I have come up with:

1: for all white shirts except 100% poly we use jetpro soft stretch transfers printed on an epson printer, currently a smaller workforce 435 all in one. Had larger format printer and almost never needed the larger size so I consolidated into all in 1 no more seperate scanner or copier to deal with) Look at cobraink packages and stay with pigment ink for best results.

 

2: unless doing large quantities I prefer the Ricoh line of printers for sublimation because you can leave it on the shelf for weeks if you're slow or on vacation, etc. and it prints first time every time. The 3 WF1100's mentioned above all had printhead failures even when we made sure to run them at least once a week. I believe epson is an awesome printer if used almost daily which is why we bought the 435 for shirts because we use it for everday printing also, never has time to set around and dry up. But the Ricoh was a necessity because honestly I don't sublimate enough to keep an epson from drying out and ink isn't that cheap just to waste on test pages every couple of days.

 

3: If you venture into off white and dark shirts I use Alpha Dark but that's just my personal preference of whites most people agree on JPSS.

 

Thanks

Jay

great explaination

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Better to learn from my mistakes....

 

Jay

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

Better to learn from my mistakes....

 

Jay

I've paid my dues - 

Time after time - 

I've done my sentence 

But committed no crime - 

And bad mistakes 

I've made a few 

I've had my share of sand kicked in my face - 

But I've come through 

We are the champions - my friends 

And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I wonder how many on here are too young to know Queen.

 

Jay

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

way too many LOL   _ had someone that actually got some roger miller lyrics on fb the other day LOL

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I never really felt that old but on Friday's a bunch of the high school kids will come in and get shirts made up, They all call me sir. Hell, I'm only 37.

 

Jay

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

it hit me when new prisoners came in that were born the year I hired in  - Ouch  - that was years ago

[tammy h 6]

We have been doing shirts for a few years now and after much trial and error (as well as 3 workforce 1100 in the dumpster) this is what I have come up with:

1: for all white shirts except 100% poly we use jetpro soft stretch transfers printed on an epson printer, currently a smaller workforce 435 all in one. Had larger format printer and almost never needed the larger size so I consolidated into all in 1 no more seperate scanner or copier to deal with) Look at cobraink packages and stay with pigment ink for best results.

 

2: unless doing large quantities I prefer the Ricoh line of printers for sublimation because you can leave it on the shelf for weeks if you're slow or on vacation, etc. and it prints first time every time. The 3 WF1100's mentioned above all had printhead failures even when we made sure to run them at least once a week. I believe epson is an awesome printer if used almost daily which is why we bought the 435 for shirts because we use it for everday printing also, never has time to set around and dry up. But the Ricoh was a necessity because honestly I don't sublimate enough to keep an epson from drying out and ink isn't that cheap just to waste on test pages every couple of days.

 

3: If you venture into off white and dark shirts I use Alpha Dark but that's just my personal preference of whites most people agree on JPSS.

 

Thanks

Jay

Thank you for all of the info. This is a huge help!

 

So- you have a transfer printer and sublimation printer? It sounds like the transfers go over better? Can you post a couple of pics of the transfers so I can see how these take? I'm having issues trying to visualize the difference. Do they look like the direct to garment? I don't want to spend the kind of cash on that type of printer but her work sure looked cool!

 

I received my press last night and tried a couple of samples. I was also surprised at how easy the vinyl is to weed vs. the non-heat applied. I struggle weeding the non heat applied and was dreading struggling with the heat applied stuff and much relieved when it was pretty easy. I have more vinyl coming over the next couple of days and need to order some shirts.

 

Thanks again-

Tammy

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I'll have to post pics later today. I don't have any shirts laying around, we make each custom for the customer. The transfers have a feel to them referred to as hand. A light hand means very little feel the heavier the hand the more you will feel it on the shirt. The JPSS transfers are among the lightest hand transfers around, even more so after they've been washed once. Never had a complaint about them. The dark transfer on the other hand feel more like a patch on the shirt. We sell probably 100 JPSS for each dark transfer but stock them because some people really want them. Look up Alpha Supply as they have a sample pack with a bunch of different transfers at a reasonable price so you can make a few samples and see what you like the best. If you go JPSS I recommend buying off the big auction site. I buy the 8.5 X 11 for $66.50 per hundred shipped. About the DTG, I just payed off my house and don't really want to remortgage to buy a shirt printer. They keep coming down in price and I may reconsider in a couple years but that's just my preference and my customers are happy with what I offer.

 

Jay

[tammy h 6]

I couldn't see buying a DTG printer either- I am more just doing this as a hobby- making a little extra cash doing something I think I'm going to love. There's no way - I'd see ever see a return on investment with one of those DTG's with the little bit that I would ever do. It's fascinating though.

I hate to ask so many questions- but the more I google and read online the more confused I become as to the difference in appearance of transfers, vs. printed vinyls vs. sublimation and lastly vs. DTG. I want another option besides vinyl and I think after these postings I feel pretty good about buying an epson w/ the pignment ink. I think that sounds better than the sublimation for now? I guess I'm trying to get a feel if I do one or the other which would be better... Can I use the pigment inks on the vinyl transfers? Would there be any advantage of the printed vinyl over the transfers?

 

Thanks again for all of your help. I'll check out that site.

[jaybyrd 3,770]

Let me see if I understand what you asking with the differences

1: By transfer are you referring to the ones like JPSS that you print in your regular printer ? If so they are probably the most cost effective way to do custom shirts and I have had several that still look great after a year.

2: The print vinyl if I'm not mistaken is mostly for solvent type printer (think full color stickers) which is a rather large investment just starting out.

3: Sublimation is basically for 100% poly if you want good results with it. When transferred the only thing that actually transfers is the "ink" not the paper so when finished there is absolutely no hand (feel) on the finished product where products like JPSS actually transfer a substrate along with the ink so there is always something to be felt on the finished product.

4: Store bought transfer are usually screenprint based and by design have a noticeable feel to them.

 

Just as a side note Epson w/ pigment ink can do cotton, poly, and cotton/poly blend. Sublimation is normally 100% poly and there is a significant price difference for the blank shirts.

 

Jay

[tammy h 6]

Yes- that's exactly what I was asking- thank you so much for the response!

 

So- in reading this my best bet would be to go with the JPSS transfers and pigment ink. I was worried about getting good color etc- but you seem to have good luck w/ them- so that helps ease my mind.

 

I think the store bought from what I've read seem to look a little cheesy... and sublimation seems to be a bit expensive.

Thanks again!

[tammy h 6]

On my 435 from cobraink it has their cis installed and no problems on filling as the tanks are mounted on the side of the printer not in it. +1 for quality paper I ordered some off ebay one time and it looked like cardstock. If it's not super smooth and shiny on 1 side DON'T use it. Also I know I don't speak for everyone on this but I bought 2 cis kits 1 for 1100 and 1 for c88 and neither worked even as close to as well as cobraink setup. Wish I had heard of them to begin with could of saved some cash along the way.

 

Jay

 

Did you install the cobraink system yourself or did you buy the complete system from them? I see a brother all in one 11x17 that I thought might be great for my every day printing needs plus some shirts. I dont want to get away from the vinyl on shirts all together -and go to a printer- but want that as an option.

 

Also- I read on another blog that they are saying if you don't use it (even pigment) ink in a ciss for a few days it clogs? Do you have problems with clogging ink on the pigment ciss?

Tammy

[jaybyrd 3,770]

I haven't had clogging with this printer but I use it for everything including invoicing and receipts so the longest it sits is over the weekend. The kit was preinstalled and from what I've seen they do a better job than I could have. I'm on my 3rd set of small refill ink bottles since I bought it (maybe 6 months ago) and not 1 problem.

 

Jay

[jaybyrd 3,770]

We sell quite a bit of heat transfer vinyl but when you want full color images jpss is the way to go.

 

Jay

[tammy h 6]

Thank you for the info. I think I will buy a pre-done cobra set up also. I figured I could always mix and use the transfers w/ the vinyl to.

[tammy h 6]

I emailed Cobra but they have not responded yet. Can you tell me how to get the "forum" discount? Is that for joining a forum they have? I didn't see one linked on their website.