top53 53 Posted September 1, 2012 I did a big trailer in April just saw it today and I am a little concerned some of the letters are showing cracks, nothing that the customer is complaining about. From what I had read I expected the Oracal 651 to hold up better than this. Could this be because of old vinyl or heat (black trailer grey letters) just wondering at this point. All the other colors look great, just the grey. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted September 1, 2012 I did a big trailer in April just saw it today and I am a little concerned some of the letters are showing cracks, nothing that the customer is complaining about. From what I had read I expected the Oracal 651 to hold up better than this. Could this be because of old vinyl or heat (black trailer grey letters) just wondering at this point. All the other colors look great, just the grey. 651 is fine on signs,banners etc. But you should use a minimum of 751 on a car or trailer these give and flex all the time in movement and the 651 which is a Calandered film does not give like the cast that is what causes the cracking and curling . I actualy use 751 on signs that may be up indefinitely it cost a little more but just add it to the job cost and if anybody complains just explain that the slight difference in price could give 3 years or more to the life of the product. I will price most jobs with premium vinyl unless it is a banner or temporary type sign . Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay2703 704 Posted September 1, 2012 Sounds like great advice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 2, 2012 Should it be doing this in only 4 months. So much for the 6 years as per the USCutter description. "ORACAL Series 651 has become the industry standard for high performance calendered films. Only 2.5 mils thick, ORACAL 651 offers six year outdoor durability, flexibility, thermal print compatibility, and a choice of 59 high-gloss colors. This high-quality film is a good choice for moderately complex jobs that don't require the extra conformability provided by ORACAL's cast films." I did not require the extra conformability provided by Oracal's cast films. So for only a couple of letters, just concerned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted September 2, 2012 Should it be doing this in only 4 months. So much for the 6 years as per the USCutter description. "ORACAL Series 651 has become the industry standard for high performance calendered films. Only 2.5 mils thick, ORACAL 651 offers six year outdoor durability, flexibility, thermal print compatibility, and a choice of 59 high-gloss colors. This high-quality film is a good choice for moderately complex jobs that don't require the extra conformability provided by ORACAL's cast films." I did not require the extra conformability provided by Oracal's cast films. So for only a couple of letters, just concerned. Again it is the flex of the cars ,trucks and trailers the cast will flex and return . On the other side I have signs with 651 that has been up 8 or 9 years and is still decent but most were not right in the elements . Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 2, 2012 Dan, I appreciate your comments, but we are talking about 4 months. You telling me not to expect 651 to last a year, come on man. I will be checking with Oracal Tuesday on this matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted September 2, 2012 I would check also but I will bet they will put it back to instlation or the substrate type but you would expect it to last longer than four months also something as big as a trailer probably has a lot of expansion and contraction just setting in the direct sunlight. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 5, 2012 Update from Oracal Being such a short time since application it is most likely that a wax product has been applied to the product. Wax will dry out vinyl, adding exposure to the sun as well will only compound the issue. I would be glad to look at any photos and additional information about the application and the material itself anytime if you wish. Thank you Dean Strohmenger Senior Product Support Specialist ORACAL USA An ORAFOL Company 1100 Oracal Parkway Black Creek, GA 31308 After inpecting it more closely, it appears I had a stray line cut thru 3 of the letters. I reinspected the art work everything okay there, two of them were "n"s and one "o". Will replace and move on. By the way Oracal wasted no time in contacting me and working me thru this. Thanks Dean Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted September 5, 2012 I am glad it worked out . And that is great business sense to make it right even without a complaint . Good work Dan 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 5, 2012 New update: Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 10:23 PM To: Dean Strohmenger Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Re: FROM ORACAL.COM: Oracal 651 problem] Thanks for getting back to me so quickly, after inspecting it more closely it appears my cutter made a stray cut thru three of the letters. I rechecked my art work and everything appears okay. We just missed it in the weeding process. Sorry for being a bother. Someone suggested I should have used 751 on this job, but from what I had read the 651 was the vinyl of choice. Look at the pictures and tell me what you think. When would you use the 751 over the 651? Answer from Oracal: Being that this is a flat surface 651 is appropriate unless there are rivets that are unavoidable. 751 is a cast material. Being a cast material it does have a longer life span but more importantly it is a conformable material. From what I can see in the photos conformability is not necessary so staying with the 651 saved a considerable amount of money in materials. Projects like this one in the photos commonly are changed before a 5-6 year product like 651 wears out. Dean Strohmenger Senior Product Support Specialist ORACAL USA An ORAFOL Company 1100 Oracal Parkway Black Creek, GA 31308 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mabscotthandyman 1,410 Posted September 6, 2012 Good to know I have always used 751 on autos and most long term signs and the slight difference passed on to the consumer . Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mb20music 760 Posted September 6, 2012 I can't help but wonder why you didn't notice the "stray cuts" when you pre-masked and when you applied the graphics to the trailer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 7, 2012 If it was not for both of the "n"s being cut in the same place, I don't think I would have belived it was a stray cut. I think that they may have opened up with the extreme heat we have been experincing. These stray cuts were not very long they did not even go into the adjoining letter. I just don't know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NateL 8 Posted September 7, 2012 So did you actually have the stray lines in your vector file? Seems pretty odd that the cutter would cut two stray lines in the exact same place on two letters. Or, maybe it is a weird font with a stray line in the "n" ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted September 7, 2012 651 on a black substrait in the sun with the heat this summer will fail like this. Hard lesson for using subpar material to save a few bucks. Not to be hard but learn to use the correct material. It has shrunk. A good cast would not have done this and opened up like it did, that is why you can see the glue lines around all the letters Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
top53 53 Posted September 9, 2012 SA Graphix, I don't see the glue lines around any of the letters, apparently you think you know more about Oracal's material than the people that make it. Read the entire post. NateL, I found it, it was a 1" line on the work causing the problem with the "n"s. Just a straight line from point A to point B. It must have been left when I was doing some of the design work. I will learn to keep my work clean. I can not find anything wrong with the "o" in the art work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted September 10, 2012 I did read the entire post, Sorry to offend you in such a way. Must be a shadow I see cast from the thickness of the lettering giving the effect of shrinkage. Also someone must of removed material material for them cracks to be that apparent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites