Busdriverfella

Unicode .. not in SB or SC

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Greetings,

It looks like neither SignBlazer Elements nor SignCut support UNICODE.

At least InkScape does .. so now I get to do all my text work in InkScape and port it over to SignBlazer. Nice ..

I can't believe that they license SignCut for a year, then want me to pay for it, and it doesn't support UNICODE.

I didn't find anything much on a search of the forums for unicode, so am I the only one who has an issue here?

Thanks.

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In this situation what is the advantage to unicode? Signblazer and SignCut are graphic programs, not text editors.

Are you doing lots of multilingual work?

I guess I don't understand why this would be needed and even more so why ctrl+a, ctrl+c then ctrl+v is so tough.

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Well .. I guess I'll respond point by point.

I don't consider them to be 'graphics' programs, I consider them to be 'sign cutting' programs, and as such should support unicode text , as signs often contain text.

Yes, I am doing multilingual work.

Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C and Ctrl-V isn't tough, but because the software doesn't support unicode, the copied characters show up as '?'.

For example, 'chả' copies over as 'ch?'. ( The example looks correct on my computer, I hope it looks right on yours. )

Feel free to copy and paste that word. In SignBlazer, it will come over as 'ch?'. In SignCut, it will look correct in the text box, but when applied to the workspace will be 'ch?'.

So being able to input the characters properly in the software without rendering them in another program for import would be the advantage.

I hope now that you can see the advantages of using unicode and that you understand why this would be needed.

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I can see the advantage I guess if one is not familiar with Vietnamese.

I have never used unicode and understand its benefits. Looks like a big pain in the rear to me in my opinion. Needed java applets to render correctly and some non latin languages just total garbage out.

Flexi Supports it in Arial Unicode MS font. Maybe look at that route?

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I agree with SA :lol: . I have never even heard of unicode , much less had an issue about it . You might look for a software that supports what you want .

You get a 1 year subscription of SignCut when buying a cutter from USCutter . After that , everybody pays a subscription . Inkscape is the only free software I have found . SignBlazer was never meant to be free , other than a 30 day trial . It was extremely affordable software when the company was in business . Now SignBlazer Elements is free to use .

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I obviously wouldn't be paying a subscription for software that doesn't do what I need.

I just think it's kind of sad that I would have to pay between $395 and $995 for Flexi just because the provided software that was supposed to work .. doesn't.

I need to find another way .. I simply don't have that kind of cash to fling around!

If I use Corel X3, and convert the text to curves, it looks nice in Corel. When I copy/paste to SBE it looks terrible. Not smooth anymore, etc.

I must be doing something wrong.

I enter the text, it looks good. I 'Arrange .. Convert to Curves'.

Ctrl+C, then Ctrl+V in SBE and it comes over, but it's ragged and nasty lookin'.

Maybe I need to use larger letters in Corel and resize the result in SBE?

Here is what I was originally referring to :

post-25069-0-93819500-1339619295.jpg

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I obviously wouldn't be paying a subscription for software that doesn't do what I need.

I just think it's kind of sad that I would have to pay between $395 and $995 for Flexi just because the provided software that was supposed to work .. doesn't.

I need to find another way .. I simply don't have that kind of cash to fling around!

If I use Corel X3, and convert the text to curves, it looks nice in Corel. When I copy/paste to SBE it looks terrible. Not smooth anymore, etc.

I must be doing something wrong.

I enter the text, it looks good. I 'Arrange .. Convert to Curves'.

Ctrl+C, then Ctrl+V in SBE and it comes over, but it's ragged and nasty lookin'.

Maybe I need to use larger letters in Corel and resize the result in SBE?

Just because it doesn't look smooth in SBE doesn't mean it isn't. SignBlazer has visualization limitations that do not affect the cutting quality. (It just looks like crap on the screen.)

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Hmm .. perhaps. I've never seen that effect before. I could use a bit of scrap vinyl to test that, but even in the cut screen it looks lousy, and all previous cuts have looked very much like I expected.

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Hey! Got it!

I was using Corel, thinking it would be the better choice. WRONG!

If I go ahead and use Inkscape, export as EPS, then import into SBE, it looks great!

Wow .. long road to get there, but worth it. Another case of public freeware doing a better job than costly software (in this case).

Thanks for the input and the thought process. Next time I'm just going to try ALL the tools I have.

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If you want to play with unicode in a real world application such as advanced vector and very specific programs (ie the Flexi family) you are going to have to pay for this.

I am sure most of the programming you have done with this is all free ware and/or linux based plus alot of C and its counterparts,be it 8, 16 or 32 bit (although utf-8 is the main used from my understanding) not really much is available mainstream for this just cause it is not used in this industry. And most fonts are not unicode compatible.

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Actually, "most fonts" are unicode compatible. It's the software that uses them that isn't. And I believe that you're confusing the concept of 'programming' with 'using' when it comes to the programs being utilized. As far as 'free', I did receive a 1 year license for SignCut, which I would have to renew if I should want to continue to use it, which I see no reason why I should.

As far as 'not used in this industry', then you are missing the boat, my friend. Vietnamese shops, Halal shops, Turkish shops .. guess what? They all need signs, too.

I think when you say 'not used in this industry' I think you really mean 'not used by me'. I refer to your first post.

But I do, indeed, play with unicode in several 'real world applications', most all of which are public gnu or open source. It seems so far that the software that is 'paid for' ( or used to be ) is the stuff that was short-sighted in this regard. I refer to Inkscape as an example of open source software that supports unicode. Why? Because it's open source, and the people that needed it to do that, made sure it did.

SignCut, on the other hand, does not support unicode, probably because the people that support it also simply have no reason to believe that anyone would have the mind to make a sign in anything other than the kings english. It really is a limitation of the value of the software as a whole, and I can only hope that they are looking into this for future releases. I discussed this issue with SignCut support and was told they had no idea if or when they would consider that.

I was confused, however, by the line 'very specific programs'. All the software I use could be considered 'very specific', so I'm not sure what the implication was there. Also, I am somewhat perplexed by your reference to 'C and its counterparts'. Huh?

What exactly do you think 'C' has to do with UTF-8? Just FYI, any software that can accomidate UTF-8 can display all unicode characters. That was the point of the UTF-8 encoding system, to be backward compatible with ASCII and still be able to use UNICODE. What I think you meant to say was that all the old software still uses ASCII, and that is fine with you. I'm guessing, though.

So .. if you have something to say that might be helpful, that would be awesome, but if you just want to continue to tell me that you don't use it, you don't see why I need it and that you don't really get why anyone would need it .. not so awesome.

Bottom line .. I figured it out, thank you to all who tried to help .. it IS appreciated,

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My buddy SA likes to argue ... :lol: .From a small business owner's viewpoint , it seems the millions of bucks SignCut is loosing out on could be capitalized by someone !!! Hmmm , does that make you want to start a software company ? :lol:

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I sell signs almost daily in other languages. I do not see the benefit to unicode at all in this situation. Literal meaning such as programming works great but not in the spoken word.

This is my viewpoint and as always others may differ.

I am not arguing just trying to see the benefit to see if I want to explore this option.

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I am not arguing just trying to see the benefit to see if I want to explore this option.

Ahh , poor choice of words , I should have said debate .... :lol:

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yes, debate is better, lolol. Im just curious more than anything cause I do not know how this would be used in this situation.

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Okay, I see .. so if you are doing a sign for .. say .. a vietnamese shop .. and you need the character that is basically an 'A' with a dot below, AND a circumflex above, do you ...

a. Cut an 'A', plus cut a dot and a circumflex to piece together yourself and hope you get it straight ..

or

b. Draw in the additions in your graphics software

or

c. Use a program that supports UTF-8 (i.e. UNICODE) and just type in that character in the first place

??

The advantage is assuming the sign is something like .. a menu board and has 50 characters that are just not in ASCII fonts. Rather than cut a bunch of extra 'symbols' to hopefully properly place above and below the characters, you can just type them in your software and VIOLA .. not only can you now cut exactly how it is supposed to look, but you have a wonderful mockup screen to show the client for approval.

Since Inkscape does exactly what I need, that's how I generate my cut files and my mock ups.

I was merely grumbling that SBE and SC doesn't do that intrinsically. And as I said before ( and I hope you've tested this ) copy/pasting into those programs results in a lot of question marks rather then the characters one would have hoped had come over.

I apologize for my tone, it looked to me like you were not 'debating' but rather were basically telling me that since you didn't know/need it, you wouldn't know why I did. That's why I was somewhat surprised to see you reply with no helpful information, only questions about what I was doing and why I would need such a thing in the first place.

Again, sorry.

And just so you know, many of your 'standard' fonts support all the vietnamese characters .. like Calibri .. surprise! But if your SOFTWARE doesn't support UTF-8/Unicode, then you don't get to use those characters, even if they're in the font.

So I would say that anyone in the business of printing words (signs, books, etc.) should have some way to utilize all the characters in all the fonts at their disposal. It just makes good sense. Maybe you'll never need them, but like a gun and a spare tire, it's better to have them and not need them, than to need them and not have them.

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I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but SignBlazer will use fonts special characters. When in the font function, a bar shows up at the bottom of the screen. Click on the character that you want to use and it shows up in your text string.

http://screencast.com/t/uph5DmSnp1uH

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Okay Jay .. happy to explain with a couple of lovely examples. I'm using Comic Sans for a reason now.

( Assuming Windows 7 or Vista, please modify slightly for XP ) go to 'Start', 'All Programs', 'Accessories', 'System Tools', 'Character Map'.

At the top, click the down arrow and load the font 'Comic Sans MS'. The little boxes should be populated with happy characters. Scroll down the pages and you will discover that Comic Sans has 581 characters in it.

Now .. go to SignBlazer, hit 'text' and change the font to Comic Sans MS. Now scroll across the bottom as you suggested, and you will see that the scroll bar ends at 'ÿ'. ( a lower case y with double dots above it ).

ASCII only supports 256 characters, so any software that uses ASCII can only get the first 256 characters of any font it uses. 256=FFx, so character number FF in whatever font is the last one you'll be able to get at. That's 325 characters you can't use.

If that didn't drive the point home, then go ahead and swap Comic Sans MS out for Calibri.

Now you'll see that Calibri has 2,153 characters in it, and you can only use the first 256 in SignBlazer!!

That's right, there's 1,897 characters in that font that YOU CAN'T USE within SignBlazer. HA!

To prove that, go ahead and scroll down in character map to the second or third or 12th page. Now click on a character in the one of the little boxes and click the 'Select' button at the bottom. The character should appear in the 'Characters to copy :' box. Now click the 'Copy' button to the right of the 'Select button'. Now go back to SignBlazer, make sure you're ready to exter text, then either 'Edit .. Clipboard Paste' or <Ctrl>+V and see what you get. A big, fat question mark, is what!

Note: all the letters in your video example ( thanks for that, by the way ) were well within the 256 characters.

Ya Honor, the prosecution rests.

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I wasn't aware that there are so many characters in fonts.

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SignBlazer Elements is what most everybody is using . It is the cheapest/barest version of SignBlazer . Some have the doggles for & use SignBlazer Pro or HotShots because they purchased that . I don't know if the higher versions have all the characters , but Jerry , the creator/owner of SignBlazer was always updating & improving his software until he passed 4 years ago . An evolved SB software is going to be released . I am no clue what is involved in adding that many characters to every font any software company includes with the software , but it seems it would not be a simple task & would cost more to develop . As a busines owner , i understand if you give all the bells & whistles in the cheapest option , you won't ever sell the other versions . I Like free , don't get me wrong , but no business stays in business wiithout profit . Inkscape is great , but SB elements is better for me . If you want all the Cadillac features , that is what 1 has to buy , if a person buys a Chevette , it seems unreasonable to expect all the bells & whistes IMO . I would guess Flexi Pro has all the bells & whistles , but I can't justify paying for it . I would not pay much more for a software version because it has all the stuff you showed was missing ... I think that is how most think about that also . It seems SignCut realizes that & that is why they don't have that at the top of the list of things to do . Appealing to the most with the best price is what sells software & anything else IMO & business experience .

I like Comic Sans also , but have used Cole Casual in SB ever since finding it . Vista Print had Comic Pro available when I had my website with them & I like it alot . i have not found it to add , but i have not really tried that hard to find it . All a matter of what is available & at what cost , then if it is justifiable to purchase .

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