boxza 0 Posted June 9, 2012 Hey all. I'd like to start up a small sticker business selling vinyl stickers / decals for bikes. The stickers would need to be in full colour and able to withstand outdoor use. I only have around £500 to start with though, so I don't know where to look to find decent equipment at that price. I've seen the Roland BN-20 which looks like a good one to save up for, but at the moment I don't have the funds to afford it. So yeah, any information regarding which printer / cutter / material I should look at would be very appreciated. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
michaelphay87 11 Posted June 9, 2012 welcome if you want full color you need to print if you want to cut vinyl thats cheaper printing vinyl a good machine is 1500 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 9, 2012 So you're saying a machine that cuts out just one colour of vinyl would be the best starting method? What is the actual name for a machine that does that so I can start looking into them? And thanks for your reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 These types of "I have no clue" threads are awesome!!! Welcome, DJB, how ya doing? Whats in your business plan? How much space will your business require? What about room for Expansion and Growth? Who are your target customers? Where are they buying currently? Do you have examples/samples of the main products you're thinking of making yourself? Are you producing everything in-house or subbing out to other companies to produce? If producing yourself, do you have enough experience already with graphics programs, such as Adobe Illustrator? Of course, you realize that by owning an actual retail business you have to be there all day every day. Yep that you do. When you say "sticker business", you may find yourself at this 12 hours plus a day, everyday. You are going to have to work it hard if you want to succeed. There are a ton of questions and things to know before getting into this, and along the way you'll have to constantly re-evaluate your business plan to see if you're going about it the right way. (tip of the hat to SA Graphix, who posted much of the above within a previous thread "Opening a Vinyl Shop" back in May) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted June 10, 2012 I was goint to post but I have nothing left to say. Take what slice said in good thoughts. If you doing a business all these things are needed to know. If your just playing around and plan to make 5 buck here or there its a bit different. Read ALOT and learn what you can from it. Getting into this business is not cheap or easy like everyone leads you to believe. Making a living out of this is a huge investment of time, money and knowledge with a huge drive and desire to keep learning. A basic printing setup including but not limited to printer, laminater, cutter, design software and rip is easily upwards of 30k. Maintenance on the printers themselves is a huge learning curve. There are hundreds of people who by plotters every week thinking the sign biz is easy fast heaps of money. I suggest buying a used plotter first and getting your feet wet, then figure out if this is something your capable of doing and want to purse as a career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 Yep, I took the words right out of your mouth !!! "Stickers for bikes" covers a lot of ground, to say the least. That could be almost anything, from Celtic designs, to Racing logos, to Stripes & Flourishes, to Naked Girls. A few days ago, I splurged for a set of 10 DVD's which contain thousands of graphics (all cut-ready) called MEGA-VAULT. Honestly, it's too much, and I'll have to spend quite a bit of time just browsing and getting a feel of what's contained on them. However, just today, a lady walked into the studio asking if I could make a sign telling dog-owners to be more considerate about fouling-up her property (you know what I mean). Sure enough, on one of the DVD's there was a series of signs with all sorts of messages about dogs (in the Swap Meet section). I showed her the design ("Please, Clean Up After Your Dog"), she was thrilled that I had such a thing available. It's a crazy business we're in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lueman 19 Posted June 10, 2012 Hi DJB, Welcome! To answer your original question: I have an LP24 for almost 4 years now, I love it it cost under $500.00 and it does contour cutting. That and $100 in vinyl is all you need, at least until you get the BN-20 or the versacam 300. as a part time business I've made about $5k/per year but my primary business is embroidery. You only real concern at this point is finding customers, once you have them and the equipment the rest can be worked out. A business plan is great but in this economy forget going to a bank, get your equipment, get your customers, and save like crazy. as soon as possible add a heat press and connect with stahls.com transfer express. Then once you have some cash you can decide where to go next. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 DJB, you are essentially asking -- "Is starting with a vinyl cutter the right move for a fresh newb?" Well, that remains to be seen, but I would think that if you want to get your feet wet, the SC unit (24" wide with stand for $280, 34" for $90 more) might be the right way to go. By comparison, leuman's above-mentioned LaserPoint 34" machine sells for $700 (with stand) and although it's probably a nicer machine, I'm not sure sinking that much more dough into a vinyl cutter (being that you are a total newbie) is going to give you such an advantage over the SC in the final results. I've had my new SC, operating in a retail environment, for about two weeks now, and it's churning out work like nuts. My two-pence (tuppence) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 DJB, you are essentially asking -- "Is starting with a vinyl cutter the right move for a fresh newb?" Well, that remains to be seen, but I would think that if you want to get your feet wet, the SC unit (24" wide with stand for $280, 34" for $90 more) might be the right way to go. By comparison, leuman's above-mentioned LaserPoint 34" machine sells for $700 (with stand) and although it's probably a nicer machine, I'm not sure sinking that much more dough into a vinyl cutter (being that you are a total newbie) is going to give you such an advantage over the SC in the final results. I've had my new SC, operating in a retail environment, for about two weeks now, and it's churning out work like nuts. My two-pence (tuppence) Sorry, but what's the full name for the 'SC' cutter so I can search it up? Oh and at the moment I'm just looking to start selling on eBay, maybe opening up a website sometime down the line. Luckily I have a good amount of experience with Photoshop, so designing shouldn't be an issue. Here's an example of the kind of decals I'd like to be cutting. http://www.slikgraphics.com/ And another question, when you're using logos I assume you'd need permision from the owner? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 In the USA, when we think of "bikes" we think of BIKES --- In the UK, you blokes think of bicycles --- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Haha, no. This is what I mean by 'bikes'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 Yep, we get it. Back to your OP, I don't believe that you would be satisfied with a vinyl cutting machine at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Well, if the cheapest option for a vinyl printing machine is in the $1000's, then I'm sure I could make do with using a vinyl cutter to get started with. Providing the vinyl will durable enough for outdoor use. Would I need to laminate it once it's cut out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mopar691 281 Posted June 10, 2012 If you want a quality product there is no other option. Cheap ways to do it but quality will suffer greatly as will your reputation. Cut vinyl does not need to be laminated. You can get pretty creative if you have the desire. Every decal I can see on the bike you posted could be cut with a cutter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Wouldn't I get good results with a cutter such as this? http://www.signwizard.co.uk/used-vinyl-cutters/ex-demo-teneth-kuco-740l-laser Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 Wouldn't I get good results with a cutter such as this? http://www.signwizar...kuco-740l-laser Printing is the way to go. Really. I see what you're thinking of creating (the website SlikGraphix shows examples) and you can't compete in that field with a vinyl cutter. The full-color effects and designs that your clients want are print-graphics, not cut-graphics. Trust me on this, you will be unhappy with cut-vinyl from day one, when what you actually desire is THIS -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah I know I won't be able to make anything on the same level as what's shown on that website, but there's no way I can afford a £1000+ printer right now. With a £300 cutter I'd still be able to make simple logo stickers and maybe make some t-shirt transfers though, wouldn't I? That would be a good way to get to grips with the whole idea of cutting / printing and could also help make some money towards a printer later on. Just stuff like the decals below would be possible with a vinyl cutter wouldn't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vinylmotivations 143 Posted June 10, 2012 You will eventually want both a printer and a cutter both anyways- also you will want to start learning illustrator as photoshop wont allow you to do cut graphics on a cutter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MZ SKEETER 4,708 Posted June 10, 2012 Before you start in this Bike sticker business, and purchase a vinyl cutter of any type.. I hope that you are aware that you have to get written permission or purchase a license of some sort from the Company that you are reproducing decals of, Do you have that permission already? If not, that is copyright/trademark infringement. Pike ROCK SHOX as you are showing, is copyrighted material and can't just be reproduced and sold, without permission from Pike ROCK SHOX. Do you have all your bases covered on that? So, that you are not violating any copyright laws? Logos are Trademarked. and registered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Before you start in this Bike sticker business, and purchase a vinyl cutter of any type.. I hope that you are aware that you have to get written permission or purchase a license of some sort from the Company that you are reproducing decals of, Do you have that permission already? If not, that is copyright/trademark infringement. Pike ROCK SHOX as you are showing, is copyrighted material and can't just be reproduced and sold, without permission from Pike ROCK SHOX. Do you have all your bases covered on that? So, that you are not violating any copyright laws? Logos are Trademarked. and registered. Yeah that's what I thought, although I've seen lots of sellers on eBay who I doubt have permission. So I just contact the company directly for permission do I? I have a hard time thinking they'd let me reproduce their logo at all though without getting me to pay some hefty cost. Hmmm.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MZ SKEETER 4,708 Posted June 10, 2012 Just because it's on EBAY doesn't make it legal. They all get caught eventually. Yes, you would have to contact the company and get permission. And I would guess they have Quality aspects,, they want to see your work, You would have to sell a certain quota. Pay them , etc. Getting caught can be very costly. Here is a good read on somebody who got caught. And putting it up on EBAY is worldwide, Anybody can see it and report you. You stated you can't afford a higher end cutter, So, can you afford the attorney fees of being represented in court for Trademark Infringement? Something to think about,, before you get in over your head http://forum.uscutte...__fromsearch__1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MZ SKEETER 4,708 Posted June 10, 2012 You can start and have a successful business doing vinyl stickers, graphics, signs, banners, etc, without doing any copyright stuff.. it is done by many people everyday....and has been for many years.. and will continue, Create your own niche'. and designs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxza 0 Posted June 10, 2012 Well after reading that thread I'm definately not going to make any logo stickers without permission! So say that I do manage to get permission from a company, and I get picked up for copyright infringement, I'll just be able to show them the writen permission and it'll all be fine? Do you know if an email would suffice for the permission or would I have to get a letter? I think I'll start off with creating unique designs for stickers anyway, as I can see it becoming pretty costly trying to get permission from companies to use their logos.. Thanks for your advice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MZ SKEETER 4,708 Posted June 10, 2012 You would have to find out ALL that info from the company you want to do business with.. I would bet they all have their own policies, Some probably different than others. . I am only lending some advice before you find yourself in trouble. You need to check that out yourself.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slice&dice 2,450 Posted June 10, 2012 I think I'll start off with creating unique designs for stickers anyway, as I can see it becoming pretty costly trying to get permission from companies to use their logos.. Thanks for your advice. Which leads us back to the beginning of this thread, where you specify a desire to produce FULL-COLOR decals (created in Photoshop, for instance). Take a look at this other discussion -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
