zdevillez

Beginner in over his head.

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Really has nothing to do with pricing wars. Just very basic business sense. If your bidding jobs low just to get them your neighbor will be buying you Vinyl Cutting Business Package on Craigslist next year so he can regurgitate the same crappy business plan all over again.

That's funny...I've bought out two businesses that were trying to get the big bucks and after 8 years I am still going strong.

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Niche decals and vinyl are definitly where it is at..I have one decal I sell to one place that buys 25,000 per year at .68 cents each..I have another that now buys the same decal for .28 and only buys 5,000 a year..The diference is even at .28 cents I am making money off the same sticker I make lots more profit on the higher priced one..The higher priced sticker as well as the lower priced one was being bought from an online source..One customer had been with them much longer to get the lower price...I told both companies I would match their prices..Had to choke down to the lower price..But hey got a new customer thats happy and I still make money either way..Just shows if you find the niche you make the money no matter if theres a the Wally Worlds next door...

Moral of the story..If your comfortable with your profit don't let anyone dog you on prices..Some will always be high and some lower..If your ok with it forget all the rederick and do what you need to to put food on the table..You can always go up if the market will bear the up cost..Be confident you gave a good product..WOW em with service and when it comes time to up the cost a little, then do so..They will understand due to you giving great service, and a good product...Never forget service service service along with a great product..Repeat business is on the service more then the price...

OR , you could be like your gal Roxy & sell 1 mug every once in awhle for $50 :lol::bear::angel::bear:

BTW , to the OP , You can't really justify putting the entire roll of vinyl into the job unless it is special order or you use it all . It costs to stock up in any business . I have a buddy who always dramatizes about vinyl prices now . He went into the vinyl cutting business in the late 70s-early 80s & bought a Roland deal for around $10K . He was hitting home runs all over the place then . He also did/does hand lettering & air brushing ( also air-brushed T-shirt ) . As cutters got cheaper & more popular , he got less busy & lost his store front business . He still works out of his house , but still is a dinosaur in his mindset . I pick & choose jobs in every type of busness I do . But especially as the economy slows I have to compete with price if i want to eat . I give alot of stuff ( single decals ) away & it winds up being a great investment . On high quanity jobs ... many times , Stetty's gal Roxy is right about outsourcing some things for more competitive prices & better profit .

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That's funny...I've bought out two businesses that were trying to get the big bucks and after 8 years I am still going strong.

John I too just bought out a fellow forum member heres vinyl business and then turned around and bought a t shirt and hat business for a song and dance..Also just bought a $5000 wall cutter from a framing company for less than $500.00 bucks..The ones that fail are the ones that either don't know the business or want out to it being a hobby and not a business..Hobbies that take too much time become businesses...Some want them and some don't..I charge as my niche market will bear..I want the phylosophy to be I have 200 customers I make $1 dollar a piece on than 1 customer I make $200 on..If I lose the 1 customer of the 200 I only lost a buck...If I lose the $200 buck customer I lose everything...Not hard to see give exceptional service and make it right..Give crappy service and you lose everthing..I make it right and give great service and product...

Make what you can when you can..I am expanding soon to a 3500 sq ft store from a 1400 sq ft..Just out grown the smaller space...I too have a strong business..The trick is I rarely install anything..I sell it and the customer installs..Works great for me, and makes it cheaper for them...Niche business.

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John I too just bought out a fellow forum member heres vinyl business and then turned around and bought a t shirt and hat business for a song and dance..Also just bought a $5000 wall cutter from a framing company for less than $500.00 bucks..The ones that fail are the ones that either don't know the business or want out to it being a hobby and not a business..Hobbies that take too much time become businesses...Some want them and some don't..I charge as my niche market will bear..I want the phylosophy to be I have 200 customers I make $1 dollar a piece on than 1 customer I make $200 on..If I lose the 1 customer of the 200 I only lost a buck...If I lose the $200 buck customer I lose everything...Not hard to see give exceptional service and make it right..Give crappy service and you lose everthing..I make it right and give great service and product...

Make what you can when you can..I am expanding soon to a 3500 sq ft store from a 1400 sq ft..Just out grown the smaller space...I too have a strong business..The trick is I rarely install anything..I sell it and the customer installs..Works great for me, and makes it cheaper for them...Niche business.

The bad thing I have seen some self installs that were awful and makes your work look bad . That is where my niche comes in installs that is how I got into the signage business doing installs every thing from flat metal 4x8 panels to plastic letters,channel letters and lit Signs the guy that I started installing for says he loses every time he leaves the shop for an install .

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I understand on the install making my stuff look bad..99% of all of my customer knows the risk..Just has worked for me in my niche...

I have several companies I do around 10,000 decals a month that they install themselves..I also do around 100 banners and coro signs a month for another company..ALL this keeps me hopping I will tell you!!!..

So believe me I understand..I just think when a business finds the niche you should explor it to its full potential...

Others have expertise in install, others in printing, and some in designing..Thats where the niche comes in I think..Find it and make a living!!!

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I understand on the install making my stuff look bad..99% of all of my customer knows the risk..Just has worked for me in my niche...

I have several companies I do around 10,000 decals a month that they install themselves..I also do around 100 banners and coro signs a month for another company..ALL this keeps me hopping I will tell you!!!..

So believe me I understand..I just think when a business finds the niche you should explor it to its full potential...

Others have expertise in install, others in printing, and some in designing..Thats where the niche comes in I think..Find it and make a living!!!

Hmmm , Stetty . When I just seen this thread title again ... It made me think of You , Roxy & finding a niche for some strange reason ....LOL !!! :lol::bear::angel:

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Hmmm , Stetty . When I just seen this thread title again ... It made me think of You , Roxy & finding a niche for some strange reason ....LOL !!! :lol::bear::angel:

YOU know when I wrote that I thought of you and Roxy and that time..>WELLLLL thats another story...LMAO!!!! :blink:

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Stetty and Roger, you two need to get a room. You sound like an old married couple. ;D

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Hey Jay , the humor is not the room but who is in the room with Stetty !!! He has a thang for a gal way up north !!! :lol::bear::angel:

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Jay it's an old running joke thing Roger started many moons ago by tattooing his gal up norths face on the cheek of his butt so she would always be close to his heart..LMAO!!!

We always have a room for other things but he has been chasin this gall so long I don't know if he will ever get over she has a life partner and does not want him period!!!!

HMMM something to this I think..running from him and now a partner..Hmmm Roger you scared another one to the other side...LMAOOOOOOOOOO!!!...ooops fell in the floor...laughing ;D

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Jay it's an old running joke thing Roger started many moons ago by tattooing his gal up norths face on the cheek of his butt so she would always be close to his heart..LMAO!!!

We always have a room for other things but he has been chasin this gall so long I don't know if he will ever get over she has a life partner and does not want him period!!!!

HMMM something to this I think..running from him and now a partner..Hmmm Roger you scared another one to the other side...LMAOOOOOOOOOO!!!...ooops fell in the floor...laughing ;D

I hope you get bruises !!! :lol::bear::angel:

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LMAO!!!! only you are warped enough to get this type of humor..NOW stop hijacking the OP's thread and get back on subject before they throw you WAY under the bus and let it run out of gas...

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Otay ...

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I dont mind at all. I consider it making friends in the professional market. Thanks everyone for the responses, jokes, and bad advice. ha ha.

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Ive been doing this for five years now with a dba from the day I started and everything and gotta say that I agree the distributors should check on all that stuff and only sell to those that are a legit business not a 500 dollar start up with no dba or insurance or experience

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I understand & can agree to a small extent with the line of thinking about DBA , insurance ( not sure what insurance is neeed for vinyl decals ?? ) , but experience ... It is not like this is rocket science ... most people going into business started working for somebody doing that type of work , no matter what type of business . Many jump in & learn as they go . Certainly vinyl decals is 1 of the easiest & cheapest business ( at least recently , not 30 years ago ) to get into & is not dangerous to the business owner or customer if mistakes are made . I am always looking for new perspectives ... What does having a DBA change ? Electricians , plumbers .. actual trade licenses are 1 thing . Getting a VERY cheap or free DBA does not change anything in reality IMO . At each & every sign show , even with the biggest suppliers , anybody capable of having a conversation & signing their name can become a " distributer " which surpasses DBA IMO . Ancient thinking in a world that has changed drastically with the internet .

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I agree with you Rodger having a business license or insurance don't make you any smarter or a better craftsman it just makes you legal in some municipalities . I have known some LICENSED plumbers that were not worth a dime and some self trained tradesmen that were adapt at multiple trades that held no license of any type .

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I have the same experience & knowledge Dan :) . I think the ability to buy from suppliers without " proper/legit " business documentation is the issue that they are bringing up . That is to keep start up people from being able to compete with " legit " business in price . A VERY moot issue as the internet can supply anybody on the earth with supplies cheaper than most " legit " distributers . I personally talked to the owner of Hechingers in Glen burnie , Md when Home depot started . He had the same acient way of thinking . His " legit " business went into the dinosaur catergory ( extinct ) & Home Depot flourished . I think a valuable lesson can/SHOULD be learned from that !!! Technology is constantly changing & the internet is a major tech revelution in shoping for everything . I am open minded to finding out how the cost of a cutter regardless if $100 or $10K , having a DBA & or a license , a cutter in the front room/garage/small commercial bldg / a whole commercial bldg or a store in the mall really changes the actuality of all of them being a " legit " business . All business started somewhere . Like was said , those days are gone where documentation is needed to buy at wholesale prices I can buy from Grangers with a business card ( when the economy was thriving , I had to get a buddy to buy for me , so same result in reality ) . I contribute that to the internet & I think that is a GREAT thing :) . I have to say it confuses me as to why that mentality is being posted on a forum based on start up / hobby business types . I don't think any major sign companies are members here , so projecting that perspective seems to be a MAJOR uphill battle to convince us here ?? Here is a basic concept I have .. the less overhead results in a higher profit margain or the ability to sell for less with more profit than those with higher overhead costs . If the exposure is worth the extra overhead , that is logical , otherwise foolish IMO . I know of many " legit " business that have closed the doors to walk in customers , internet sales only . Technology & time changes most things .

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I have my opinion you have yours. Agreeing with you is the only way to end things and I don't agree so it just keeps going.

I'm not whining about not getting work or getting underbid. I turn down alot of work based on the single statement from a potential client, "xxxxxx signs will do it for this price." At that point I merely point to the door and go back to working cause wasting any more time with this person is like flushing money down the toilet. I offer a service, not a product.

What do you consider a "real" sign shop? I have a 8400 sq ft facility. This year alone I have grossed over 200k. I guess that's not real enough for you and your right, I am going about this all wrong and need to find my niche to work on.

In all reality what I am stressing is this is a cut throat industry. Just cause you buy a cutter and download some vectors does not mean your going to succeed. Do it the right way. Write a business plan, get a focus. Training, school and knowledge go very far in a industry where you have to compete with everyone cause they have a copy of Photoshop, Publisher or Corel.

Charge accordingly. You have layout time, design time, Machine time, wear and tear, weeding, application, billing and also the time spent with the customer going over the project. Every minute you spend on a project should be reflected in the end price from start to finish. Otherwise you are cutting your self short and devaluing the industry as a whole.

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& so it goes on :lol: :laugh: :lol: 1rst you would need to actually read what was posted ... My last post was responding about Dan's post in regard to rdgraphix2's post & what Dan said !!! nothing to do with your posts .To answer you ... I consider anybody making a decal & selling it a " REAL " sign shop . I don't consider Donald Trump being anymore of a businessman than the guy selling pencils on the corner , just MUCH more successful . If the guy selling pencils doubles his money & had nothing to do with the time spent anyway .. THAT is a great business plan for him . Worrying about who the distributors sell to is ancient thinking IMO . When any business gets flooded like vinyl cutting is now , prices drop & somebody making decals in the living room while watching tv can make as much % of profit if not more at 1/2 the price of a business that has a good bit of overhead . It is not what is the gross income , it is the profit . BTW , NOTHING means you are going to succeed except hard work , determination & dealing with REALITY . Like you said in earlier posts in this thread " Those days are gone " .. Why do you keep harping about it & trying to drive it down members throats here ?? This is a beginners forum for the most part . When anybody can buy a cutter set-up with materials for $500 up & use $2 worth of materials in 10 minutes or less & sell them for $50 , why begrudge them ?? Technology is like rust , it never sleeps either !!!

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My very simple business plan 45 years ago if I had more money at the end of the day than I started with I had made money not that simple now but if you turn a profit after all overhead and cost you are doing something right.

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