Gman2005

Best Vinyl for Car & Boat Decals?

25 posts in this topic

Does anyone have a recommendation for the best kind of vinyl to use for car (or boat) decals?

Will 651 hold up to the weather?

Thanks,

Gman2005

P.S. I have some red 651 that is not releasing from the backing using clear greenstar tape, but black releases just fine. Ideas?

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651 is the best as far as price wise & is what most use . It does shrink . It also cracks sometimes on glass where the heat seems worse . I have stuff I put on painted surfaces that looks as good as when I installed it 4 years ago .

Some colors need tweaking in the pressure & blade depth . It may be just that run of vinyl is thicker/thinner but I think the colors are always a bit different to cut & then effecting releasing .

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I would not advise using 651 on a car period. That is bad advise. In less than 6 months it will noticably shrink and expose the adhesive around the edges and start cracking in the corners if it is exposed to the elements and every day road rash. Do yourself and your customers a favor and use a fleet graphic grade cast at least.

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The best advice is to have it hand painted , Any vinyl is inferior to actual paint . 651 does a great job & depending on the heat does not show the adhesive etc . I wash my vehicles every great once in awhile & have seen no adhesive when on painted surfaces . The 1rst decal I made 4 years ago is still on my work truck & looks as good as it did then !!! On glass it shows up faster & much more noticable . I have a buddy who bought a roland cutter 30 years ago .. has tried all the vinyls & has told me he has had the best grade vinyls shrink & crack as well . He uses Oracal 651 90% of the time . To each their own .... I consider telling somebody to use top quality vinyl ( costing 3X + ) only .... bad advice

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3x more? wow, you should buy your vinyl from me. I will only charge you 2.5 times more and make money all day long.

As I said I would not use 651. And I would not recomend anyone to use it on a vehicle or boat onless you want a sub par product or it was not going to be longterm. On a 76 Dodge van thats the local handyman maybe. But anything involving side graphics, layers or curves it gets hard to apply. .5 mil adds up fast and makes bigger steps when layering colors.

Others will use it and others do. I do not sell things to my customers based on price. I sell my products based on the quality of the materials and the quality of my services. If they want the 50 dollar tuner stripe kit they can see Ebay.

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To be fair, 651 does hold up in my situation.

751 is on the high side, but you could go up in your price for the material and pass that on to your customer I guess.......

Roxy loves 751 I believe, maybe she'll chime in on this situation. Neither IMO is bad advise whatsoever

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To be fair, 651 does hold up in my situation.

751 is on the high side, but you could go up in your price for the material and pass that on to your customer I guess.......

Roxy loves 751 I believe, maybe she'll chime in on this situation. Neither IMO is bad advise whatsoever

Yes, you cannot charge the same for both. That should be reflected in your final pricing for sure.

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last time I checked it was about 3X , I just checked & 651 in color is $90 for a 24" X 50 yard roll .. 751 is $196 .. so a little over 2X . I'm sure big shops buy a roll of every color in 751 or better ( Oracal 951 which is the best , hence the " best " advice ...is $470 per 24" X 50 yard roll .. so a little over 5 X as much $$$ ... How many colors do you have 4-sale of 951 for 2.5 X the price of 651 :huh: I'll take them ALL !!! ), but most on this forum don't . Much depends on how long you want it to last ... or how much to replace if scraped up etc . Just like shirts ... Always the best quality shirt is BEST , but not what 99.99% of what is made & sold :huh:

Oracal 651 is listed as 6 year , 751 is listed as 8 year & 951 is listed as 12 year outside use ( that is before noticable fading )

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If you want the "best" vinyl I would say 951....But I consider 751 good enough......651 does not cut it in my mind and 751 is only about 35 cents a square foot more...When I quote a job with 751 versus 651 I only add 1 cent a square inch which more than covers the extra material as I make enough on the 651 rate for my labour....And that makes the 751 a real good value......Last time I counted, I was up to 9 colours of 751 in stock....Red, black and white in 24" x 50 yard rolls.....And the rest in 15" x 10 yard rolls.....

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Roxy , It sounds like you also use 651 since you quote jobs in 751 vs 651 . How many rolls , colors do you have in 651 ? I plan to build up a selection of 751 to offer the upgrade . Most people I deal with replace the vehicles more often or repaint them within the 651's rating .

To others , I assumed the OP was not a multi million dollar sign shop just starting out asking what is the best in quality & if 651 would hold up to the weather . They would know the answers & I'm sure the OP knows 651 is an intermediare vinyl & not the best in quality , I took that question as " best " = most practical as in getting started ( 99.99999 % of this forum when joining ) Beginners who are learning to crawl , walk & then run do things differently than BIG money people . No BIG money people would be here IMO .

BTW , I put 651 decals on boats in the Severn River/Chesapeake Bay .. brackish.saltwater that are 3 years old & still look new . Many cutomers change the decals out of choice for something new/different & don't intend them to last 100 years :):D:bear:

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P.S. I have some red 651 that is not releasing from the backing using clear greenstar tape, but black releases just fine. Ideas?

Check that your blade is not out too far. If it cuts into the backing paper it makes it difficult to remove. The difference in one releasing and the other not may be due to variations in the vinyl thickness. If one vinyl is a little thicker it may prevent the blade from cuttting into the backing and release OK.

Jay

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3x more? wow, you should buy your vinyl from me. I will only charge you 2.5 times more and make money all day long.

As I said I would not use 651. And I would not recomend anyone to use it on a vehicle or boat onless you want a sub par product or it was not going to be longterm. On a 76 Dodge van thats the local handyman maybe. But anything involving side graphics, layers or curves it gets hard to apply. .5 mil adds up fast and makes bigger steps when layering colors.

Others will use it and others do. I do not sell things to my customers based on price. I sell my products based on the quality of the materials and the quality of my services. If they want the 50 dollar tuner stripe kit they can see Ebay.

The best is 951 .. I'll gladly buy ALL of that you have to sell me @ 2.5 X the cost of 651 .... :huh:?? HAHA , seems like a 1976 Dodge van IS a long term application :huh: I have a 1997 Dodge van that I posted a pic of months ago if that was what you are refering to. .5 mil does add up & that is why anybody should get the decal printed if over 3 colors . Sticking colors on top of each other is ice age technology now with printing as popular as it is .

I am glad you removed my name from your post ( had it beside the $50 tuner strip & e-bay slur ) . I do consider this the 2nd time you have slurred me in a post. I am VERY happy to laugh with people or JUST as happy to bang heads . :bear:

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The best is 951 .. I'll gladly buy ALL of that you have to sell me @ 2.5 X the cost of 651 .... :huh:?? HAHA , seems like a 1976 Dodge van IS a long term application :huh: I have a 1997 Dodge van that I posted a pic of months ago if that was what you are refering to. .5 mil does add up & that is why anybody should get the decal printed if over 3 colors . Sticking colors on top of each other is ice age technology now with printing as popular as it is .

I am glad you removed my name from your post ( had it beside the $50 tuner strip & e-bay slur ) . I do consider this the 2nd time you have slurred me in a post. I am VERY happy to laugh with people or JUST as happy to bang heads . :bear:

I am more than happy to laugh and have fun to there. And I only put it there to get a rise out of you but then you didnt even comment on it right away so I pulled it. Kinda made me sad. lol

I just love your posts. they are fun to interact with.

I stock about 18 to 20 colors on hand of 751/951 not including metallics. From my vendor most of the colors are same price for 951 as 751 as they dont always have 751 on hand so free upgrade more often than not. Including vinyl i always have a few sheets of acp, alumacorr, many coro in various colors and banner rolls in various witdhs. Approx 1500 shirts in common colors and weights.

I receive more people thru my shop cause of turnaround time. By stocking many colors I am able to do more things sooner and able to bid jobs more correctly by not having to ship in for every order. I dont bother with anything less than 50 yrd rolls and I know it is alot of cash to be tied up in inventory. Was a major investment to get to this point but it does pay off and makes things much easier instead of locating material and waiting for the trucks to arrive.

I do know not every one has a shop and cannot do this but people are asking how others do it and this is how I do. It works well for me and I hope to have more to be able to offer as time rolls on. I just picked up a gerber cnc router last week and am looking foward to getting into larger 3 dimensional signage and better shapes in the near future.

Hate to say it but it takes alot to be able to put yourself above everyone who goes and buys a 600 cutter and sells ready made graphics and calls themself a sign shop. As i stated before my pricing is higher than most here and I see no reason for me to compete with anyone in my area on pricing. If they are after the cheapest bid then let them get that. Takes longer to build your client base but the ones you do get the referrals will be better and the jobs will pay more.

Now Im ranting agin and off topic so I gotta go. Srry. But yes 951 would be "best"

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I have over 20 colours of 651.....And another 20+ of 631.....There are only a handful of colours for 751 & 651 I think are worthwhile for me to buy in full rolls....Red, white (matte & gloss), black (matte & gloss), royal blue....And as I can, I will probably get both 15" and 24" full rolls in the most popular colours....It is nice to have both sizes so you can pick the size that works best for a particular....For lesser colour I will go with 24"....

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I am more than happy to laugh and have fun to there. And I only put it there to get a rise out of you but then you didnt even comment on it right away so I pulled it. Kinda made me sad. lol

I just love your posts. they are fun to interact with.

That is very cool & I am glad :thumbsup: I like people to crack up with me & I got a chuckle out of your last post .. I enjoy messing around & right now I might have " Stetty " a little ruffled at me ( a tatoo picture in the main gallery :) ) . I have a whack sense of humor that is hard for many to take ... my wife must be the toughest person on the planet . I can't get a file to load in the gallery .. it is the " matching " .. Roxy tatoo .... ( Roxy might get ruffled at me for that :) ) When I make friends mad in a humorous way , it really cracks me up for some reason . I am glad we are cool with each other as I plan on geting some shirts or transfers from you . :D

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Check that your blade is not out too far. If it cuts into the backing paper it makes it difficult to remove. The difference in one releasing and the other not may be due to variations in the vinyl thickness. If one vinyl is a little thicker it may prevent the blade from cuttting into the backing and release OK.

Jay

I have the GreenStar Clear application tape, and works fine on the black 651, but not on the red 651. Should I try R-Tape's Clear?

I'd prefer clear because I'm making decals for a retail store.

Thanks for the feedback.

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That is very cool & I am glad :thumbsup: I like people to crack up with me & I got a chuckle out of your last post .. I enjoy messing around & right now I might have " Stetty " a little ruffled at me ( a tatoo picture in the main gallery :) ) . I have a whack sense of humor that is hard for many to take ... my wife must be the toughest person on the planet . I can't get a file to load in the gallery .. it is the " matching " .. Roxy tatoo .... ( Roxy might get ruffled at me for that :) ) When I make friends mad in a humorous way , it really cracks me up for some reason . I am glad we are cool with each other as I plan on geting some shirts or transfers from you . :D

NOPE :unsure: not ruffeled GOOD OLE ROGER..just waiting for the next wave of the attack..LMAO!!THEN the counter will commence..I always study a foe before reacting..Time is on my side was a good phrase that should be used as common ground..LOL...just remember OH WHERE IS ROGER NOW?? I hear he might be doing some capaining with his favorite politician, or might be whale swimming in the arctic..OHHHH I know maybe the new poppa smurffett...WHO knows what and where Roger might beeeeeee///LMAO!!

OH and to the OP I use only 651 for everything...boats, cars, trailers, glass, metal, mirrors, tiles...HAVE not had an issue yet..OTHER than GOOD ole Roger..LMAO!!..time is my friend my friend... ;D

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I have the GreenStar Clear application tape, and works fine on the black 651, but not on the red 651. Should I try R-Tape's Clear?

I'd prefer clear because I'm making decals for a retail store.

Thanks for the feedback.

Rtape works well with 651 I like it

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NOPE :unsure: not ruffeled GOOD OLE ROGER..just waiting for the next wave of the attack..LMAO!!THEN the counter will commence..I always study a foe before reacting..Time is on my side was a good phrase that should be used as common ground..LOL...just remember OH WHERE IS ROGER NOW?? I hear he might be doing some capaining with his favorite politician, or might be whale swimming in the arctic..OHHHH I know maybe the new poppa smurffett...WHO knows what and where Roger might beeeeeee///LMAO!!

OH and to the OP I use only 651 for everything...boats, cars, trailers, glass, metal, mirrors, tiles...HAVE not had an issue yet..OTHER than GOOD ole Roger..LMAO!!..time is my friend my friend... ;D

Hilarious Stetty !!! I went to King's Dominion for my grand-daughters 3rd birthday ...WoW , some of those rides are a blast . I'll post the 2nd wave of endearment as soon as I get it to load into the gallery :D . Geez , I do something that should be considered a honor & some get thoier feathers ruffled LOL :thumbsup::D:bear: Guess it is like my dad always told me .. no favor goes unpunished !!! B)

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I had a thought today, while driving for work after having read the OP....

Of all of these comments, really noone is wrong- and no one has hit the nail on the head about what the "BEST" is....

Really when deciding what the "BEST" for any situation is really depends on a lot of things the customer feeds you and their expectations.

A lot of work I do- at least car decal wise... Is for several groups of folks....

1) Owns an asphalt company. His trucks and equipment get beat up, scraped, splattered with tar and other goop and I don't care how many times you clean the surface, it is still DIRTY. The previous guy that did all of his work either printed on clear or used Oracal 751. He expects to re-do all of the badging on his equipment yearly or every couple years anyway to keep it looking nice. The 751 was thrashed just the same after 18 months of wear and tear. Thus far he is much impressed by the 651 series because it looks just as nice, cost him about half as much, and he still plans on having it redone just the same. Short term install, short term product- 651 is the answer here.

2) Little League teams.... Little johnny wont be playing for the ravens, or whatever team he plays for next year- but mom wants to support his team and will peel off that old ravens decal next spring..... pretty sure that calendared 651 or my aqueous mactac works great for this too- and still looks great until she peels it off.

3) A friends landscaping business- they keep their trucks immaculate and their not beat up too badly and they want the logos on the side to continue to look great and hold up well to snow, salt and sand as they do snow removal in the coldest fo Iowa winters. Pretty sure that the 751 we used will hold up great for years, but they will probably replace it before its time is up or peel it off because something needs repainted or repaired to replace the truck, and sell it- so no real need for 951 here.

4) Store front windows... 951 is the jewel here, as they plan on having the sign up until the absolutely have to replace it.... so permanent install, permanent or long lasting vinyl.

Each situation has its own needs and merits, oppertunity costs and requirements involved. I would say to each is their own what they use- for me.... I weigh in what the customer is doing. Why waste expensive material for a temp install when the bottom line is what matters.

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Hilarious Stetty !!! I went to King's Dominion for my grand-daughters 3rd birthday ...WoW , some of those rides are a blast . I'll post the 2nd wave of endearment as soon as I get it to load into the gallery :D . Geez , I do something that should be considered a honor & some get thoier feathers ruffled LOL :thumbsup::D:bear: Guess it is like my dad always told me .. no favor goes unpunished !!! B)

:angel: riiiiiiiiiighttttt!!!!!!

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