Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Best Vinyl for Car & Boat Decals?


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Gman2005

Gman2005

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 02:29 PM

Does anyone have a recommendation for the best kind of vinyl to use for car (or boat) decals?

Will 651 hold up to the weather?


Thanks,
Gman2005


P.S. I have some red 651 that is not releasing from the backing using clear greenstar tape, but black releases just fine. Ideas?

#2 mb20music

mb20music

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,582 posts

Posted 10 August 2011 - 02:46 PM

751 would be a better choice
Posted Image

#3 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 10 August 2011 - 03:32 PM

651 is the best as far as price wise & is what most use . It does shrink . It also cracks sometimes on glass where the heat seems worse . I have stuff I put on painted surfaces that looks as good as when I installed it 4 years ago .

Some colors need tweaking in the pressure & blade depth . It may be just that run of vinyl is thicker/thinner but I think the colors are always a bit different to cut & then effecting releasing .
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#4 mopar691

mopar691

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationHickville

Posted 10 August 2011 - 03:44 PM

I would not advise using 651 on a car period. That is bad advise. In less than 6 months it will noticably shrink and expose the adhesive around the edges and start cracking in the corners if it is exposed to the elements and every day road rash. Do yourself and your customers a favor and use a fleet graphic grade cast at least.

#5 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 10 August 2011 - 04:06 PM

The best advice is to have it hand painted , Any vinyl is inferior to actual paint . 651 does a great job & depending on the heat does not show the adhesive etc . I wash my vehicles every great once in awhile & have seen no adhesive when on painted surfaces . The 1rst decal I made 4 years ago is still on my work truck & looks as good as it did then !!! On glass it shows up faster & much more noticable . I have a buddy who bought a roland cutter 30 years ago .. has tried all the vinyls & has told me he has had the best grade vinyls shrink & crack as well . He uses Oracal 651 90% of the time . To each their own .... I consider telling somebody to use top quality vinyl ( costing 3X + ) only .... bad advice
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#6 mopar691

mopar691

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationHickville

Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:24 PM

3x more? wow, you should buy your vinyl from me. I will only charge you 2.5 times more and make money all day long.

As I said I would not use 651. And I would not recomend anyone to use it on a vehicle or boat onless you want a sub par product or it was not going to be longterm. On a 76 Dodge van thats the local handyman maybe. But anything involving side graphics, layers or curves it gets hard to apply. .5 mil adds up fast and makes bigger steps when layering colors.

Others will use it and others do. I do not sell things to my customers based on price. I sell my products based on the quality of the materials and the quality of my services. If they want the 50 dollar tuner stripe kit they can see Ebay.

#7 Ash Computers

Ash Computers

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,302 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hogs - - - "Don't Be Hating, If My Tusks Are Shaking"

Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:37 PM

To be fair, 651 does hold up in my situation.

751 is on the high side, but you could go up in your price for the material and pass that on to your customer I guess.......

Roxy loves 751 I believe, maybe she'll chime in on this situation. Neither IMO is bad advise whatsoever
USCutter Laserpoint 24 € Epson WF1100 € FlexiSIGN Pro 10 € SignCut Pro € Inkscape € Windows 7 Ultimate € Ash Computers - http://www.AshComputerShop.com € Email:Tech@AshComputerShop.com

#8 mopar691

mopar691

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationHickville

Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:40 PM

To be fair, 651 does hold up in my situation.

751 is on the high side, but you could go up in your price for the material and pass that on to your customer I guess.......

Roxy loves 751 I believe, maybe she'll chime in on this situation. Neither IMO is bad advise whatsoever



Yes, you cannot charge the same for both. That should be reflected in your final pricing for sure.

#9 Ash Computers

Ash Computers

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,302 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hogs - - - "Don't Be Hating, If My Tusks Are Shaking"

Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:41 PM

:thumbsup:+ 1
USCutter Laserpoint 24 € Epson WF1100 € FlexiSIGN Pro 10 € SignCut Pro € Inkscape € Windows 7 Ultimate € Ash Computers - http://www.AshComputerShop.com € Email:Tech@AshComputerShop.com

#10 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 10 August 2011 - 05:43 PM

last time I checked it was about 3X , I just checked & 651 in color is $90 for a 24" X 50 yard roll .. 751 is $196 .. so a little over 2X . I'm sure big shops buy a roll of every color in 751 or better ( Oracal 951 which is the best , hence the " best " advice ...is $470 per 24" X 50 yard roll .. so a little over 5 X as much $$$ ... How many colors do you have 4-sale of 951 for 2.5 X the price of 651 ??? I'll take them ALL !!! ), but most on this forum don't . Much depends on how long you want it to last ... or how much to replace if scraped up etc . Just like shirts ... Always the best quality shirt is BEST , but not what 99.99% of what is made & sold ???


Oracal 651 is listed as 6 year , 751 is listed as 8 year & 951 is listed as 12 year outside use ( that is before noticable fading )
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#11 roxanneupnorth

roxanneupnorth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • LocationIn Canada

Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:07 PM

If you want the "best" vinyl I would say 951....But I consider 751 good enough......651 does not cut it in my mind and 751 is only about 35 cents a square foot more...When I quote a job with 751 versus 651 I only add 1 cent a square inch which more than covers the extra material as I make enough on the 651 rate for my labour....And that makes the 751 a real good value......Last time I counted, I was up to 9 colours of 751 in stock....Red, black and white in 24" x 50 yard rolls.....And the rest in 15" x 10 yard rolls.....
"Sooner or later I will piss you off, so when necessary, please ignore me!"

#12 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:51 AM

Roxy , It sounds like you also use 651 since you quote jobs in 751 vs 651 . How many rolls , colors do you have in 651 ? I plan to build up a selection of 751 to offer the upgrade . Most people I deal with replace the vehicles more often or repaint them within the 651's rating .

To others , I assumed the OP was not a multi million dollar sign shop just starting out asking what is the best in quality & if 651 would hold up to the weather . They would know the answers & I'm sure the OP knows 651 is an intermediare vinyl & not the best in quality , I took that question as " best " = most practical as in getting started ( 99.99999 % of this forum when joining ) Beginners who are learning to crawl , walk & then run do things differently than BIG money people . No BIG money people would be here IMO .

BTW , I put 651 decals on boats in the Severn River/Chesapeake Bay .. brackish.saltwater that are 3 years old & still look new . Many cutomers change the decals out of choice for something new/different & don't intend them to last 100 years :) :D :bear:
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#13 Jay2703

Jay2703

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,676 posts
  • LocationEastern Washington

Posted 11 August 2011 - 07:56 AM

P.S. I have some red 651 that is not releasing from the backing using clear greenstar tape, but black releases just fine. Ideas?


Check that your blade is not out too far. If it cuts into the backing paper it makes it difficult to remove. The difference in one releasing and the other not may be due to variations in the vinyl thickness. If one vinyl is a little thicker it may prevent the blade from cuttting into the backing and release OK.



Jay

24" VinylExpress Enduracut+, SignBlazer, Adobe CS3, InkScape


#14 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:02 AM

3x more? wow, you should buy your vinyl from me. I will only charge you 2.5 times more and make money all day long.

As I said I would not use 651. And I would not recomend anyone to use it on a vehicle or boat onless you want a sub par product or it was not going to be longterm. On a 76 Dodge van thats the local handyman maybe. But anything involving side graphics, layers or curves it gets hard to apply. .5 mil adds up fast and makes bigger steps when layering colors.

Others will use it and others do. I do not sell things to my customers based on price. I sell my products based on the quality of the materials and the quality of my services. If they want the 50 dollar tuner stripe kit they can see Ebay.



The best is 951 .. I'll gladly buy ALL of that you have to sell me @ 2.5 X the cost of 651 .... ????? HAHA , seems like a 1976 Dodge van IS a long term application ??? I have a 1997 Dodge van that I posted a pic of months ago if that was what you are refering to. .5 mil does add up & that is why anybody should get the decal printed if over 3 colors . Sticking colors on top of each other is ice age technology now with printing as popular as it is .

I am glad you removed my name from your post ( had it beside the $50 tuner strip & e-bay slur ) . I do consider this the 2nd time you have slurred me in a post. I am VERY happy to laugh with people or JUST as happy to bang heads . :bear:
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#15 mopar691

mopar691

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 975 posts
  • LocationHickville

Posted 11 August 2011 - 08:37 AM

The best is 951 .. I'll gladly buy ALL of that you have to sell me @ 2.5 X the cost of 651 .... ????? HAHA , seems like a 1976 Dodge van IS a long term application ??? I have a 1997 Dodge van that I posted a pic of months ago if that was what you are refering to. .5 mil does add up & that is why anybody should get the decal printed if over 3 colors . Sticking colors on top of each other is ice age technology now with printing as popular as it is .

I am glad you removed my name from your post ( had it beside the $50 tuner strip & e-bay slur ) . I do consider this the 2nd time you have slurred me in a post. I am VERY happy to laugh with people or JUST as happy to bang heads . :bear:



I am more than happy to laugh and have fun to there. And I only put it there to get a rise out of you but then you didnt even comment on it right away so I pulled it. Kinda made me sad. lol

I just love your posts. they are fun to interact with.

I stock about 18 to 20 colors on hand of 751/951 not including metallics. From my vendor most of the colors are same price for 951 as 751 as they dont always have 751 on hand so free upgrade more often than not. Including vinyl i always have a few sheets of acp, alumacorr, many coro in various colors and banner rolls in various witdhs. Approx 1500 shirts in common colors and weights.

I receive more people thru my shop cause of turnaround time. By stocking many colors I am able to do more things sooner and able to bid jobs more correctly by not having to ship in for every order. I dont bother with anything less than 50 yrd rolls and I know it is alot of cash to be tied up in inventory. Was a major investment to get to this point but it does pay off and makes things much easier instead of locating material and waiting for the trucks to arrive.

I do know not every one has a shop and cannot do this but people are asking how others do it and this is how I do. It works well for me and I hope to have more to be able to offer as time rolls on. I just picked up a gerber cnc router last week and am looking foward to getting into larger 3 dimensional signage and better shapes in the near future.

Hate to say it but it takes alot to be able to put yourself above everyone who goes and buys a 600 cutter and sells ready made graphics and calls themself a sign shop. As i stated before my pricing is higher than most here and I see no reason for me to compete with anyone in my area on pricing. If they are after the cheapest bid then let them get that. Takes longer to build your client base but the ones you do get the referrals will be better and the jobs will pay more.

Now Im ranting agin and off topic so I gotta go. Srry. But yes 951 would be "best"

#16 roxanneupnorth

roxanneupnorth

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,154 posts
  • LocationIn Canada

Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:05 AM

I have over 20 colours of 651.....And another 20+ of 631.....There are only a handful of colours for 751 & 651 I think are worthwhile for me to buy in full rolls....Red, white (matte & gloss), black (matte & gloss), royal blue....And as I can, I will probably get both 15" and 24" full rolls in the most popular colours....It is nice to have both sizes so you can pick the size that works best for a particular....For lesser colour I will go with 24"....
"Sooner or later I will piss you off, so when necessary, please ignore me!"

#17 Rodger

Rodger

    Mr Karma

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hog Crownsville Md , Weston West Virginia or Deer Lodge Tn

Posted 11 August 2011 - 10:19 AM

I am more than happy to laugh and have fun to there. And I only put it there to get a rise out of you but then you didnt even comment on it right away so I pulled it. Kinda made me sad. lol

I just love your posts. they are fun to interact with.




That is very cool & I am glad :thumbsup: I like people to crack up with me & I got a chuckle out of your last post .. I enjoy messing around & right now I might have " Stetty " a little ruffled at me ( a tatoo picture in the main gallery :) ) . I have a whack sense of humor that is hard for many to take ... my wife must be the toughest person on the planet . I can't get a file to load in the gallery .. it is the " matching " .. Roxy tatoo .... ( Roxy might get ruffled at me for that :) ) When I make friends mad in a humorous way , it really cracks me up for some reason . I am glad we are cool with each other as I plan on geting some shirts or transfers from you . :D
I am your Sunshine , your only Sunshine , I make you happy when skies are gray ...

#18 Gman2005

Gman2005

    Newbie

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 12 August 2011 - 09:08 PM

Check that your blade is not out too far. If it cuts into the backing paper it makes it difficult to remove. The difference in one releasing and the other not may be due to variations in the vinyl thickness. If one vinyl is a little thicker it may prevent the blade from cuttting into the backing and release OK.



Jay



I have the GreenStar Clear application tape, and works fine on the black 651, but not on the red 651. Should I try R-Tape's Clear?

I'd prefer clear because I'm making decals for a retail store.

Thanks for the feedback.

#19 stetson5331

stetson5331

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,406 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hogs Bootheel of Missouri

Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:55 AM

That is very cool & I am glad :thumbsup: I like people to crack up with me & I got a chuckle out of your last post .. I enjoy messing around & right now I might have " Stetty " a little ruffled at me ( a tatoo picture in the main gallery :) ) . I have a whack sense of humor that is hard for many to take ... my wife must be the toughest person on the planet . I can't get a file to load in the gallery .. it is the " matching " .. Roxy tatoo .... ( Roxy might get ruffled at me for that :) ) When I make friends mad in a humorous way , it really cracks me up for some reason . I am glad we are cool with each other as I plan on geting some shirts or transfers from you . :D

NOPE :unsure: not ruffeled GOOD OLE ROGER..just waiting for the next wave of the attack..LMAO!!THEN the counter will commence..I always study a foe before reacting..Time is on my side was a good phrase that should be used as common ground..LOL...just remember OH WHERE IS ROGER NOW?? I hear he might be doing some capaining with his favorite politician, or might be whale swimming in the arctic..OHHHH I know maybe the new poppa smurffett...WHO knows what and where Roger might beeeeeee///LMAO!!


OH and to the OP I use only 651 for everything...boats, cars, trailers, glass, metal, mirrors, tiles...HAVE not had an issue yet..OTHER than GOOD ole Roger..LMAO!!..time is my friend my friend... ;D
54"Mutoh 1304, 54"FC8000, 54"Cold Laminator, Flexi Pro, Flexi Designer Pro, Banner Pro Hemming System, 27" I Mac, Dell Optiplex, Canon IPF 8100, Konica C452, Canon IR 4080, 36" USI Laminator, PS CS 4 & 5, AI 4 & 5, ID 4 & 5, Fireworks 4, Dream Weaver 4, Publisher, Inkscape.LOTS AND LOTS OF DEBT! LOL

#20 Ash Computers

Ash Computers

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,302 posts
  • LocationUSC Super Hogs - - - "Don't Be Hating, If My Tusks Are Shaking"

Posted 13 August 2011 - 01:22 PM

I have the GreenStar Clear application tape, and works fine on the black 651, but not on the red 651. Should I try R-Tape's Clear?

I'd prefer clear because I'm making decals for a retail store.

Thanks for the feedback.


Rtape works well with 651 I like it
USCutter Laserpoint 24 € Epson WF1100 € FlexiSIGN Pro 10 € SignCut Pro € Inkscape € Windows 7 Ultimate € Ash Computers - http://www.AshComputerShop.com € Email:Tech@AshComputerShop.com




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users