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I bought a small book on ebay 4 days ago...about 120 miles from me. So far, it has traveled over 1000 miles and I still don't have it. The pic shows the route from there to here in BLUE..the actual route the PO has taken so far in BLACK.

If this is their idea of efficiency....no wonder they are losing money. And btw....there is a regional sorting facility in Knoxville...22 miles from the package origin.

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wait untill you see what the gov.can do for health care

You mean government-run Medicare, which is more efficient than private healthcare, has far less overhead and was the brainchild of a Canadian socialist? Or, maybe you're referring to the government-run healthcare which covers all government employees (including politicians against healthcare), active military and veterans as well as prisoners and the indigent? That government-run healthcare?

Seems there's a lot of government-run healthcare, except for the 50 million Americans who can't get or don't have insurance. Check out the other countries which have healthcare for everyone, and do it much cheaper than the 16% of its GDP that America spends. Here's the list:

Every other first-world nation on the planet.

Cheers,

:)

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Our Canadian PO is very efficient and provides wonderful service albeit the rates suck for some services and some sizes of packages....But I guess we get what we pay for....

Also, one our Canadian Airport Authorities now has contracts to run several US Airports...Kind of interesting since there is so much US ownership in Canada....

As far Canadian health care, you have just been watching to much TV if you believe it is that bad....We have longer life outcomes and higher live birth rates in Canada...Yes we have some waits for some services but it is far better than denials, lifetime limits or co-pays so high you go broke....Michael Moore is a "dufus" (but I like him) and does not have his story as wrong as those medical lobbyists would ike you to believe.....For another spin, please read Wendell Potter's book Deadly Spin.....

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Any healthcare better is better than NO healthcare, where having any kind of illness means a choice between treatment or bankruptcy. Canada has gotten better with the wait queues, but let's not forget, Americans have to wait too! Not only do we wait for specialist care, surgeries, etc., we have to deal with the hordes of people in emergency rooms who use this as their primary care (for a variety of reasons).

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Oh good grief..... you had to start the Canadian health care thing with me didn't ya? hahaahahah

OK, for one, if you want to be on a death board, then yes, you might be worth saving?

Second, if you like suffering ie. (as a Friend of mine in Canada did with his liver and almost died from it because he was on a waiting list for 8 months!.)

Third Canadian health care sucks! It's socialist for one, (Which I'm totally against in the first place. But like other countries the people set back and let the government run them ie. (Communism).

Yes, I admit that most Americans are lazy and will not fight if the suckers are in their back yard with a bulldozer !!!!!!!!!

Socialism...... I can tell you where you can put your stinking socialism.

One world money, one world order..... sound familiar? Read the bible....... think God didn't know what was going to happen? lol

Any health care is better than no health care huh? I wonder if thats what Hitler told the Germans?

Let's see, the so called government bailout of the car makers ie. Chevy for one... which any idiot in his right mind knows the government owns them now..... listen, this doesn't take a genius to figure out.

The U.S. Government is trying to push socialism.... wonder why all the jobs and money are leaving the U.S.?

Why do you think? Give me your honest opinion.... I would LOVE to know what you guy's think about Ocrapa Care, I mean Obama Care.

Why in THE WORLD would a U.S.A. President hide his birth certificate....... oh and my 4 year old girl could probably tell you that!

Don't ask if I'm republican either, don't get me started on Bush... face it boys and girls... they are ALL CROOKS!

Does anyone know about "The people are suppose to run the government, not the government run us"? hummmm is that true, I think not!

P.S. Roxy..... you are wondering why U.S. owns alot in canada? Comon, your a smart girl, you know why!

My 5 cents

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omg, i agree with ash!:o

knew a gal in canada that needed some test, had to wait 2-3 months, she acted like it was no big deal, me, i went off, told her if they suspected something that would be considered life threatening here, the test would be almost immediate.

Government run healthcare? I'm thinking welfare system, were you can sit on your ass and get a check supplied from those that get off their ass and go to work each day.- mark my words, this is going to be another government screw job

And true, the PEOPLE onw the country, not politicians - they seem to have forgotten, the WORK for us, well supposed to anyways!

Bays Law #1: For every year in office, they spend a year in the state pen!

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Sorry I have to agree with Nukleon on this one (did I just say that). My father has had to put 40k on his house due to medical expenses (he works for a oil company). My heath care with the state has changed in the past 25 years so much I have to ask how my kids will ever afford to get heath care. 26 years ago my scripts cost 2.00 each now I have several that are 40 each. health care premiums have increased greatly and this week when they announce they are closing my prison again I find out if I can transfer my health care cost will double, along with a 5 percent pay cut - this is doubled as my wife works there also as a dental assistant. with the cost of health care now and with the trend toward more expensive or less employer based health care systems how will your kids afford to go to the doctor much less afford it if hospitalization is required. I look at the trend in the last 25 years and then look at what it will be in 25 more years. we cannot afford to keep going the way we have been going. it doesn't matter if you are Democrat or Republican - if you are not a millionaire you will not be able to afford health care 25 years from now

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Sorry I have to agree with Nucleon on this one (did I just say that). My father has had to put K on his house due to medical expenses (he works for a oil company). My heath care with the state has changed in the past 25 years so much I have to ask how my kids will ever afford to get heath care. 26 years ago my scripts cost 2.00 each now I have several that are 40 each. health care premiums have increased greatly and this week when they announce they are closing my prison again I find out if I can transfer my health care cost will double, along with a 5 percent pay cut - this is doubled as my wife works there also as a dental assistant. with the cost of health care now and with the trend toward more expensive or less employer based health care systems how will your kids afford to go to the doctor much less afford it if hospitalization is required. I look at the trend in the last 25 years and then look at what it will be in 25 more years. we cannot afford to keep going the way we have been going. it doesn't matter if you are Democrat or Republican - if you are not a millionaire you will not be able to afford health care 25 years from now

We don't need health care reform. We need DRUG COMPANY reform. Trust me man, my dad's in the same boat...... drug company is charging him stupid rates on meads.

1. STOP THE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT.

2. STOP DRUG COMPANIES FROM RIPPING PEOPLE OFF.

Those two alone with put health care where it is suppose to be.

Dakota, I usually agree with you on alto of things, and I know your dad and you are suffering.... but just wait till you see the NEW (Canadian) based health reform.

You think we have it ruff now, just wait till you see this......... good grief you and my dad won't live long after this reform. It's ridiculous.

Like I said before I know plenty of Canadians that are dying and suffering everyday from this.

You think our money is important, just wait till it's your life on the line..... money won't matter then.

We need to change or put a cap on drug companies and doctor charges, not reform.

I can't stress this enough though..... STOP THE FREE TRADE AGREEMENT!.

Wonder why your jobs are leaving? They are going overseas.

I just wish I could get people to see this. If we do not stop this we are going to be starving to death, trust me!

Wonder where the money has gone, ask China and other countries. Do a search on goggle about where the main offices of companies that were next to you are at now.

When the companies left, so did the money.

People think Hilary and Bill were so great, they are the ones that dropped this free trade agreement in the first place.

That's why I saw all the old people in High Point and Greensboro get their retirement jerked from under them and the companies moved to China.

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$9500 was for the air flight 60 miles to the cardiac center - nothing to do with drugs . . . .

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Ash I agree on free trade but that is a different subject that the heath care system that will bankrupt our kids

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$9500 was for the air flight 60 miles to the cardiac center - nothing to do with drugs . . . .

See..... does it cost 9500 bucks to fly to the hospital, only 50 miles?

Thats what I'm saying here.

Stop the stupidity of these people. This health reform is NOT what you want DAK, trust me man.

It's awful

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Ash,

First, I would like you to define 'socialism' and then tell me what you think of Medicare? Medicare, as you probably aren't aware, was the brainchild of Tommy Douglas, a Canadian socialist. Most seniors 65 or older report being happy with Medicare, and Medicare runs with very little overhead. America has several socialized medicine programs (I am using the word to drive home the point), just not for everyone. As I mentioned in an earlier post, if you're a government employee, you get health care. If you're a prisoner, you get healthcare. If you're active or veteran military, you get healthcare. If you're a terrorist detainee at Gitmo, you get healthcare. If you're a senior 65 or older, you get healthcare. If you're very poor (indigent), you qualify for healthcare. The people who are left out in the cold? Everyone else, and if your job doesn't provide healthcare, too bad. America leaves 50 million people without any insurance at all...and many are under-insured.

Simply saying 'socialism' does nothing to further your argument.

Canada has wait lists, but so does America, but America's system makes you wait AND can make you bankrupt (sometimes, even with insurance, depending on your need). Canada will also bump people up with emergency conditions, but people with elective surgeries tend to wait the longest. The wait times in Canada have gotten much better in recent years.

But think about this, would you rather WAIT for health services that won't make you go bankrupt, or go without health insurance, wait to have a catastrophic event and then go bankrupt because of a few days of intensive care? Think about it. Waiting is always better than dying, or dying of otherwise treatable diseases because you were too worried about costs being uninsured or under-insured. Let's not forget, Americans DO wait for healthcare, and instead of the doctors making decisions about your care, that's often left up to for-profit insurance companies who are beholden to investors and stock-holders...they are not trained in medicine but are instead trained in profits. Do you really want insurance companies making these decisions which should be left to medical experts? I don't.

Oh good grief..... you had to start the Canadian health care thing with me didn't ya? hahaahahah

OK, for one, if you want to be on a death board, then yes, you might be worth saving?

Second, if you like suffering ie. (as a Friend of mine in Canada did with his liver and almost died from it because he was on a waiting list for 8 months!.)

Third Canadian health care sucks! It's socialist for one, (Which I'm totally against in the first place. But like other countries the people set back and let the government run them ie. (Communism).

Your irrational fear of social programs has zero to do with furthering your argument. You do understand that public schools, military, fire and police, parks and rec, and currency distribution, etc. are all government-run, right?

Yes, I admit that most Americans are lazy and will not fight if the suckers are in their back yard with a bulldozer !!!!!!!!!

Socialism...... I can tell you where you can put your stinking socialism.

One world money, one world order..... sound familiar? Read the bible....... think God didn't know what was going to happen? lol

The U.S. is a secular democratic republic and does not operate on the Bible, so the Bible (or any religious document) is not germane to the discussion. I for one reject utterly any Bible as a source of authority, so Biblical examples aren't relevant to me personally, but definitely not relevant to any argument for healthcare, which is still provided by humans, not god(s).

The first amendment to the U.S. Constitution states: 'Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibit the free-exercise thereof'. So, your particular god (and the gods you don't believe in) can't encroach on your rights or make you a second-class citizen because of governmental endorsement.

Any health care is better than no health care huh? I wonder if thats what Hitler told the Germans?

Wow, you managed to drag Hitler into this? Unbelievable.

It's logically self-evident that SOME of some good thing (healthcare) is better than NONE of a good thing. The current system actually discourages the uninsured from getting care (and preventive care) and in the long run this costs us all more money. The current system lets for-profit insurance companies attempt to cherry-pick the healthiest people, while refusing or rescinding coverage for those with 'pre-existing' conditions, sometimes even refusing service after premiums have been paid for years citing an undisclosed 'pre-existing condition', which verges on fraud.

Other countries as measured for QALY (Quality-Adjusted Life Years) do better than the U.S., and again, every other country which provides universal health care does it CHEAPER than America without leaving people out. France spends about 11% of its GDP on healthcare compared to 17% in the U.S., covers all its citizens and is rated number 1 from the World Health Organization (go look it up). America ranks 37th just ahead of Slovenia, and 22nd in infant morality (lower numbers are better). America is the richest nation in the world, but performs miserably in healthcare. This broken system needs reform first, then an overhaul. It is a fact that the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is caused by medical bills. This is a fact, and you can verify this for yourself.

Quoted from the World Health Organization site:

The U.S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds. The United Kingdom, which spends just six percent of GDP on health services, ranks 18 th . Several small countries – San Marino, Andorra, Malta and Singapore are rated close behind second- placed Italy.

Let's see, the so called government bailout of the car makers ie. Chevy for one... which any idiot in his right mind knows the government owns them now..... listen, this doesn't take a genius to figure out.

One of the burdens companies have is having to provide healthcare. Healthcare costs add a substantial amount to each American car you buy, because this cost is borne by the company and the employee, when it should be shared by the American populace to spread costs over 305 million people.

The U.S. Government is trying to push socialism.... wonder why all the jobs and money are leaving the U.S.?

There's cheap labor elsewhere, and if Americans continue to suck at science and math we will lose far more jobs. Also, every other first-world nation on the planet has Universal health care, so foreign companies don't have this overhead to worry about. Socialism is your hot-word, but think about it, would you dissolve Medicare simply because it was dreamed up by a Canadian socialist? How about public schools, fire or police services, or any other government-run service? You can't have something like healthcare be for-profit and not be corrupt, as our system is now.

Why do you think? Give me your honest opinion.... I would LOVE to know what you guy's think about Ocrapa Care, I mean Obama Care.

I've written a lot in this thread already but it seems you've ignored it.

Why in THE WORLD would a U.S.A. President hide his birth certificate....... oh and my 4 year old girl could probably tell you that!

It's evident and on the web. I can't believe you're also a birther (well, I am not that surprised). ;) Obama could not be president if he weren't a citizen, silly. There are people smarter than both of us who have verified this, and with far better security credentials with respect to background-checks. As a baseline test, do you also think 911 was an inside job, and that the moon-landing was faked? ;)

Don't ask if I'm republican either, don't get me started on Bush... face it boys and girls... they are ALL CROOKS!

They're not equally crooks, if at all. The case can be made based on performance. Bush was a nightmare for the U.S., and we're still recovering from 8 years under his anti-intellectual, incurious and god-soaked monarchy presidency.

Seriously, don't just take my word for it. Do your research on healthcare. Pick a first-world nation. ANY first-world nation. Now read about their healthcare. You will find it's more efficient and cheaper (as a measure of GDP) than America's.

Also, you are when contracted is you're. I see you make that mistake a lot. It's never too late to improve and learn new things. ;)

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It's not just drug company reform but the entire healthcare system needs to be overhauled and regulated - this includes the insurance companies as well...

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' Quote

Don't ask if I'm republican either, don't get me started on Bush... face it boys and girls... they are ALL CROOKS! "

Also, you are when contracted is you're. I see you make that mistake a lot. It's never too late to improve and learn new things. "

end of multiple quotes ....

I did not read thru this mess ... just noticed the last sentence & read that part.... I see where Ash said " they are " which if contracted would be " they're " :huh: I did not read if/where Ash typed " you are " :huh: It is a sensitive subject as is correcting people's spelling/grammar ... you know what happened before ? my 2 cents :)

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For one NUK, I disagree completely.

As far as you correcting my spelling... I probably make more in a week than you do in a year.

So don't try to down me period. I didn't ask for your grammar corrections and your not my fifth grade teacher.

I'm from the south in the U.S. if you don't like my pronouning of words... then don't read it.

I've told my view's.. (But these are MY views, not yours) So when and if (which I doubt) this new reform passes, don't say I told you so is all.

My 2 cents

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I bought a small book on ebay 4 days ago...about 120 miles from me. So far, it has traveled over 1000 miles and I still don't have it. The pic shows the route from there to here in BLUE..the actual route the PO has taken so far in BLACK.

If this is their idea of efficiency....no wonder they are losing money. And btw....there is a regional sorting facility in Knoxville...22 miles from the package origin.

I'll bet the truck from Knoxville to Johnson City was full and policy dictated it had to go somewhere... :D

Seriously, all it took was for one mis-sort in Knoxville to start this chain of events. Most people might reasonablly think; ok so it should route directly back to Johnson City via Knoxville. But volume and flow can and will cause deviation of what many would believe to be the most direct route; often depending on means of transport whether that be plane, train, or automobile. Class of mail will also factor into this equation and that may very well be what has happened on the return trip in this case if the parcel was shipped at book rate.

Did somebody say something about health insurance?

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I'll bet the truck from Knoxville to Johnson City was full and policy dictated it had to go somewhere... :D

Seriously, all it took was for one mis-sort in Knoxville to start this chain of events. Most people might reasonablly think; ok so it should route directly back to Johnson City via Knoxville. But volume and flow can and will cause deviation of what many would believe to be the most direct route; often depending on means of transport whether that be plane, train, or automobile. Class of mail will also factor into this equation and that may very well be what has happened on the return trip in this case if the parcel was shipped at book rate.

Did somebody say something about health insurance?

Health insurance??? Not me said the mouse! heheheheheeh :blink:

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It's not just drug company reform but the entire healthcare system needs to be overhauled and regulated - this includes the insurance companies as well...

That's pretty much what the health care reform bill is trying to do.

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For one NUK, I disagree completely.

As far as you correcting my spelling... I probably make more in a week than you do in a year.

So don't try to down me period. I didn't ask for your grammar corrections and your not my fifth grade teacher.

I'm from the south in the U.S. if you don't like my pronouning of words... then don't read it.

I've told my view's.. (But these are MY views, not yours) So when and if (which I doubt) this new reform passes, don't say I told you so is all.

My 2 cents

is it the FACTS you disagree with, or his opinions? The FACTS pretty much speak for themselves.

I sincerely hope you NEVER have to deal with the current health care system to the extent that I have....you will be amazed at just how WRONG you are when you face it head on.

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For one NUK, I disagree completely.

As far as you correcting my spelling... I probably make more in a week than you do in a year.

My income (which you apparently underestimate) is not relevant to your obvious spelling errors. Since my corrections are valid, no amount of income will change the observed fact of a repeatedly misspelled word. Now, I am not saying you're not smart because you can't spell common words, but I do question your attention-to-detail and observation skills. Also, your reaction to a simple spelling-correction (which you can probably fix easily) isn't ideal for someone willing to correct mistakes. How does this apply to your facts regarding healthcare? It makes me think you're not listening, and probably not too open to consider views you don't already hold. See the connection?

So don't try to down me period. I didn't ask for your grammar corrections and your not my fifth grade teacher.

So, you only learn from fifth-grade teachers? Last I checked, education never stops. I am 42, I take it you're about my age? I am always learning, even from Internet forums. I am not trying to down you, but you might want to take up your apparent spelling frustration with the a dictionary or accept that your misspellings are wrong until you decide to fix them. Personally, I thank those who correct my repeated spelling-errors, but that's me. I want to be less wrong and more right.

I'm from the south in the U.S. if you don't like my pronouning of words... then don't read it.

I've told my view's.. (But these are MY views, not yours) So when and if (which I doubt) this new reform passes, don't say I told you so is all.

Please try not to take this personally. You have the *right* to say what you want in general, but you don't have the right to have your views respected if your views are obviously wrong in some demonstrable way. Simply because we have different viewpoints doesn't mean they're equal or that the truth lies in the middle. That's a false-equivalence fallacy, something you learn about well past fifth-grade. ;)

The bottom line here regarding this issue is that you clearly need to do more research and talk with less certainty about a subject you're not very certain about, because what you say (which is what we know about your views) is full of misinformation or just outright fear. Remember, you compared Universal healthcare to Hitler. Think about what you say if you want people to react well to your views. They don't get respect merely because you hold them, and all views are subject to scrutiny, especially when you post them on public forums. Unfortunately, your spelling does affect your credibility...because if you can't muster 3-letter words, how much are you really reviewing your facts? Perhaps I am wrong to make that connection, yet I do, and many others might as well. (Didn't your fifth-grade teacher tell you this?). ;)

Also, I think you'd be surprised to find out how much your 850.00 drugs costs in Mexico or Canada, if you'd care to research it. If you name the drug I can probably help research it, but that's your private matter and if you choose not to disclose it, I wouldn't blame ya.

Stay on point, and let's not get too personal.

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Like I said NUK, I left home along time ago man, don't need your teaching, and I'll that and that all I want.

It's not personal to me, I think it's hilarious! If I thought it was personal, I'd say come on down here and tell me that to my face.

So, no, what your saying to me is not personal. It's your guy's view on the situation. I just have different one's.

Yes, I agree BJ that something NEEDS to be done, I just don't agree with the government control over what we do and what we don't.

I agree to disagree, I do agree with some points, but we as a free people cannot let them take one inch of our freedom away from us.

We are already letting them do way to much to us as it is.

Thats why my fore fathers died..... to be free. period.

Good lord guy's, we already let them tell us what to do in OUR OWN car.... Get your seat belt on, sit down, and shutup!!!!!

They tried to chop our guns up, thats not going to happen without a war! Just wait, the south's gonna do it again! weeeeeeee heehehh

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Like I said NUK, I left home along time ago man, don't need your teaching, and I'll that and that all I want.

It's not personal to me, I think it's hilarious! If I thought it was personal, I'd say come on down here and tell me that to my face.

I would say any of my views to your face if you were here, and worded much the same way. If you lost your temper, I would enjoy some of your vast income. ;) As you properly recognize, this isn't personal, but our views do affect the other because I assume you vote? I vote, and my views help shape law. This is why it's important to get things right.

So, no, what your saying to me is not personal. It's your guy's view on the situation. I just have different one's.

This is true.

Yes, I agree BJ that something NEEDS to be done, I just don't agree with the government control over what we do and what we don't.

I agree to disagree, I do agree with some points, but we as a free people cannot let them take one inch of our freedom away from us.

We are already letting them do way to much to us as it is.

Thats why my fore fathers died..... to be free. period.

Good lord guy's, we already let them tell us what to do in OUR OWN car.... Get your seat belt on, sit down, and shutup!!!!!

They tried to chop our guns up, thats not going to happen without a war! Just wait, the south's gonna do it again! weeeeeeee heehehh

Here's where your misconception creeps in, because Universal healthcare is not an abridgment of rights but an expansion of rights and a way to get from under the thumb of for-profit insurance companies and a corrupt system, while some groups have coverage over other groups.

As every other first-world country with Universal healthcare demonstrates, you will not be goose-stepping in Times Square simply because you go from private insurance to government-backed insurance. Remember, Medicare has worked for years with efficiency and is a government-run system. So is VA care and prisoner care. Think about this. All Universal healthcare is is a way to consolidate all these disparate systems into one, more efficient system, which covers everyone (not just some) and spreads costs over more people to lower your personal costs. It's basic economics.

Germany has a system where individuals have a government-guaranteed package and keep private insurance their entire lives. The insurance company only gets government funds if the individual chooses to remain with a particular company, and Germans have about 200 different companies to choose from.

This competition breeds better customer-service and added-value coverage, etc. These companies compete in a capitalistic sense, yet every German is guaranteed a base package of healthcare by the government so insurance companies cannot play games with insurance denial, refusal, denying tests and procedures ordered by trained medical staff, reject people with pre-existing conditions (which is one of the reasons we need healthcare to begin with), etc. Removing the for-profit status of insurance companies and having a government-backed base healthcare package gives us choice, coverage (the purpose of healthcare) while removing corruption that exists now.

For those who work union, it's the same concept. There is power in numbers, and it helps to prevent corruption. The current system is rife with corruption and it needs reform and an overhaul. This will be an improvement for everyone and at a lower cost (I know it's hard to believe), but all one needs to do is go live in another first-world country for a while and experience a different system firsthand. Barring that, read about it in the book I recommended.

The point is to retain our freedoms without being forced as Americans in the richest nation on Earth to choose between healthcare and bankruptcy for those of us who happen not to be insured, or whose jobs don't offer health insurance. None of us choose cancer or Alzheimer's or choose to have kids with debilitating diseases, but yet these things happen.

It is currently illegal to drive in most states without car insurance. Is this socialism? After all, car insurance is required, with stiff penalties for being caught driving without it. We are even asked to pay more to cover those who don't have it for any reason. Is this socialism, or good economics?

Likewise, we cannot afford to cover all Americans (including the sickest Americans), if for-profit insurance companies are free to cherry-pick only the healthiest people to cover while rejecting and playing games of rescission with the rest. This is if nothing else, inhumane and un-American, as a great nation and leading world-power who values its most valuable asset: We The People.

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Naaaa, my vast income is in the boys name. Freeing me up for future ventures ahahahahahahaahahaha :thumbsup:

I think if your over 60 NUK, they should take you out back and get you out of your misery.

You ever tried to drive on the road behind one of these people? I mean for real! Get them out of the way is what I say! :thumbsup:

hahahaahah I'm joking, but you see my point. This is what will happen with the new health care system. My friends in Canada say you go before a board and they basically see if your worth saving or not. But anyhow, I'm getting bored NUK, go check on the forum to see if anyone misspelled something! heheeheheh

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