AshComputers

Buy A Keyspan When You Order

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Hello, If you are buying a new machine and are planning or even "think" you are going to use a USB connection, PLEASE purchase the keyspan adapter through USCutters when you do. This will save you so much headache and heartache.<br /><br />

If your going to be spending thousands out go ahead and spend the $40 bucks for a great keyspan, you can get it here if you already ordered <a href='<a href='<a href='http://www.uscutter....PTER_p_212.html'>http://www.uscutter....PTER_p_212.html</a></a><br /><br />

<br /><br />

If you need help with USB connection problems, or computer problems period, I can set you up for a small fee.<br /><br />

<br /><br />

Send me an e-mail <a href='mailto:deerhuntingoutdoors90@yahoo.com' title='E-mail Link' class='bbc_email'>Email me</a><br /><br />

<br /><br />

Hope This Helps.

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I think U.S. Cutter's position is that you don't need the KeySpan from what I've read, but I just like the more secure connection with all that vibration. ;D

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Does this appy to most cutters or just USC's in house brands?

I have a Graphtec CE5000-40 and Cut3000 (GCC Bengal) and both are working fine on a windows 7 x64 machine through USB.

Or is it an operating system issue?

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Ok, let me explain myself a little on these keyspans. Regardless what anyone says about these cutters not needing keyspans. Don't take my word for it, the rest of the guy's here know they do need them. Just do a search on usb problems and keyspan. Usb ports are connections that hook through your computers hubs or root hubs if you will. The usb or "pipe" can have up to 32 endpoints, 16 into the host controller and 16 out. One of the pipes are required to be a bi-directional type. There are 2 kinds of pipes, stream and message depending in the type of data transfer your receiving. But anyhow, the keyspan levels these pipes, or usb ports if you will and regulates the amount of data transferred from the pipe to the cutters motherboard. But anyhow I can write a book here hehehe Yes use keyspans on all of your cutters, it will save you some heartache. Like I said before you need to regulate the data flow and a keyspan will do the job flawlessly. The data transferred from the usb even a 2.0 port is transferring at a speed of 480 mbits.

New motherboards etc. have the almost new usb 3.0 which run at a speed of 4800 mbits. So the signal which is being sent is far faster than what the cutters motherboard serial port, or usb can keep up with basically. Which in turns really is the rate the data is being received and sent from the printer and back to the computer.

So, alot of the times the cutter starts acting sporadic because it's getting the info. faster than what it can receive.

This is why the serial port works great, it cuts down the flow of data and communicates great with the cutter.

Hope that helps someone

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Does this appy to most cutters or just USC's in house brands?

I have a Graphtec CE5000-40 and Cut3000 (GCC Bengal) and both are working fine on a windows 7 x64 machine through USB.

Or is it an operating system issue?

No, it's not an OS problem. Search the forum and you will see that even the Macs are having this issue. It's all in the usb ports

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Oh, one more thing about USB's. Make sure you DO NOT use over the max length of usb wire, you will burn your ports out. For devices such as cutters, I wouldn't go over 8 to 10 feet. If you have to go more than that, pick up a powered usb hub and use that to extend with. This will keep your usb ports from being burned out because of the power it takes to run the length of the cable. This also puts a strain on your cutters power supply because it's injecting its own power through the usb port as well

Hope this helps

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Oh, one more thing about USB's. Make sure you DO NOT use over the max length of usb wire, you will burn your ports out. For devices such as cutters, I wouldn't go over 8 to 10 feet. If you have to go more than that, pick up a powered usb hub and use that to extend with. This will keep your usb ports from being burned out because of the power it takes to run the length of the cable. This also puts a strain on your cutters power supply because it's injecting its own power through the usb port as well

Hope this helps

This is total BS.

USB ports are current-limited devices. They have automatic protection circuits that step in and shut the port off if the current draw exceeds the maximum allowed by the design spec.

What you said earlier about the port talking too fast is also BS if the client device is properly designed. The client device can tell the computer "Hey! I'm old and slow. You can't talk to me any faster than XXX". This is why USB is backwards compatible from 3 to 2 to 1.

The major reason that many devices function properly over serial connections and break oddly over USB connections is that the manufacturer of those devices cheaped out. Most legacy devices are serial devices. There'd be a considerable investment of money into re-working them from the ground up to utilize modern technologies. So, to try to sound like they aren't taking the easy way out, they include a serial to USB conversion chip in the product itself. It's basically an embedded version of the USB<>Serial adapter dongles. However, if you choose a crap chip and then poorly implement it, the results are what so many people see with cutters. Random drop outs, freezes, timing problems, etc, etc, etc. There are chipsets and implementations that work very well, such as those inside the Keyspan USA-19HS. A company could just as easily decide to embed a converter of that quality but most of them don't for cost reasons. I would posit that this is why you see very few people complaining about Graphtec, Roland, and Summa failing with USB connections and a lot of complaints about Cat-named-cutters not working with USB.

EDIT: I do think I should clarify that I agree that buying a Keyspan USA-19HS is a great idea for any cutter that may have a dodgy conversion chip in it. The 19HS is a GREAT adaptor and is priced reasonably.

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This is total BS.

USB ports are current-limited devices. They have automatic protection circuits that step in and shut the port off if the current draw exceeds the maximum allowed by the design spec.

What you said earlier about the port talking too fast is also BS if the client device is properly designed. The client device can tell the computer "Hey! I'm old and slow. You can't talk to me any faster than XXX". This is why USB is backwards compatible from 3 to 2 to 1.

The major reason that many devices function properly over serial connections and break oddly over USB connections is that the manufacturer of those devices cheaped out. Most legacy devices are serial devices. There'd be a considerable investment of money into re-working them from the ground up to utilize modern technologies. So, to try to sound like they aren't taking the easy way out, they include a serial to USB conversion chip in the product itself. It's basically an embedded version of the USB<>Serial adapter dongles. However, if you choose a crap chip and then poorly implement it, the results are what so many people see with cutters. Random drop outs, freezes, timing problems, etc, etc, etc. There are chipsets and implementations that work very well, such as those inside the Keyspan USA-19HS. A company could just as easily decide to embed a converter of that quality but most of them don't for cost reasons. I would posit that this is why you see very few people complaining about Graphtec, Roland, and Summa failing with USB connections and a lot of complaints about Cat-named-cutters not working with USB.

EDIT: I do think I should clarify that I agree that buying a Keyspan USA-19HS is a great idea for any cutter that may have a dodgy conversion chip in it. The 19HS is a GREAT adaptor and is priced reasonably.

This makes a lot of sense, and well-written I might add.

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None of the links you provided conflict with anything I said. I never said very long USB cables were usable. They aren't. However, it has nothing to do with high current draw (which seems to be your argument). I did directly address the LPs and PCuts by saying that the real problem with USB reliability on the cheaper cutters is the implementation of the USB<>Serial bridge embedded in the device.

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I don't have the time for this, I need to help someone in need. Like I said, I was just trying to get them to understand they can't use a 20 foot cable, and they need a keyspan with these machines. I could set and talk about transmission line theory all year long, but it would come to the same conclusion every time. Some say the usb gets burned out this way, some say it get's burned out that way... listen I work on these thing's day in and day out, and I come here to get away from them. I love cutting vinyl and printing, it relaxes me a whole lot.

Thanks for your views and have a great day

Hi Ash,

I have to say that I do think Williaty sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and his description of the problem matches the observations I've read with regard to the LP24 and related cutters (why would you need a Keyspan for a high-quality machine like a Roland anyway?).

It also makes sense that Chinese value-priced cutters would do exactly as he described, that is to cheap out on the internal USB chipset which we all know is well-handled by the KeySpan conversion from serial to USB. What we're simply doing is instead of letting the cutter do the conversion, we do it with the Keyspan (which does it better, after all, that's the selling point).

The secondary benefit is the secure serial screw-in connection on a vibrating machine. I feel better about this, even if it doesn't make a difference with USB (though I think it probably does make a difference for some users).

The USB connection probably works for many users and USC as tested, but the KeySpan seems to be a superior connection and all of three of us agree on that, even if it's based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience. I am sure US Cutter sells the KeySpan for a reason better than the fact than everyone seems to think they need them, but if USB-only cutting worked great on the value machines in question, people probably wouldn't have found this solution to begin with. It's similar to the stock cutting blade vs. Clean Cut Blade upgrade or cheap vinyl compared to high-quality Oracal. The value cutters will have some cost-saving measures we can thankfully improve-upon in the after-market.

I don't know if the KeySpan can regulate data 'flow' (more citation needed) but it helps to have optimized, low-overhead source files when cutting. But, if the serial port has its own data-flow regulation, I would think large files would work fine through a Keyspan albeit more slowly with the limited memory of these value cutters.

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Hello NUK, I didn't say he didn't know what he was talking about. I was speaking in data flow thru the usb to these cutters motherboards, don't set and tell me that these boards can handle the data flow quickly enough. I know my computers. But anyhow, as I stated b4, I know what causes this, hell I've been working on these things for 28+ years. I told you what causes these failures, so if you want to hook whatever you want up, so be it. I'm just trying to solve some headache for all of you. This is the last reply to this thread from me, I've said what I need to say. If you think my facts are wrong, be my guest, hook it up the way you want, it's your money, machine, software. Just don't come crying to me when this happens to you. I get enough flak from the misses and am sure enough not getting it from anyone else, that's why this is my last response on this subject. I haven't been doing this for years for nothing. But anyhow, to the one's that disagree, good luck to you and your equipment!

My 5 cents

HAVE A GREAT DAY!

Yo Ash!

From what I recall, nobody said that you said Williaty didn't know what he was talking about and I think it's clear (as a computer-person myself) that he does have good ideas about the hardware. His explanation of the serial-USB bridge perfectly explains why the KeySpan is helpful for specific value cutters. If there's a better explanation I'd love to hear it.

From your terminology it sounds like you have some experience, but I didn't grasp how your explanation matched the hardware or explained why a KeySpan could regulate data but a serial port couldn't, but it's not a big deal at this point.

I am not that interested in debating this either and I know you said you were done with this thread. I have my Keyspan installed, I am happy I bought it and my budget LP24 cutter works great with its upgraded blade from Clean Cut as well!

I think your recommendation to get a KeySpan with these value cutters is good advice. You have a great day too. ;)

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...now I'm just looking for somewhere to stick it...

<wink>

When peple tell me " you have a good 1 " , I reply with " I do " .. some get a puzzled look & then crack up :thumbsup:

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When peple tell me " you have a good 1 " , I reply with " I do " .. some get a puzzled look & then crack up :thumbsup:

Oh no, I wouldn't be puzzled, I'd be rolling my eyes. :rolleyes:

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I am confused here.....I just got the MH721 cutter and just use the USB cable and it works fine without any problems that I can tell. My question to this is will it kill either my computer or cutter over time if I don't get the KeySpan?!?!? :huh:

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I am confused here.....I just got the MH721 cutter and just use the USB cable and it works fine without any problems that I can tell. My question to this is will it kill either my computer or cutter over time if I don't get the KeySpan?!?!? :huh:

No. If it works, it works. The Keyspan only can fix unreliable communications between the computer and cutter when trying to use the USB port on the cutter. If you are having no problems with the cutter doing weird things while you're using the USB port on the cutter, don't do anything. If, in the future, you start having weird glitches with the cutter, then it might be time to buy a Keyspan and use the serial port on the cutter to see if it resolves the issues.

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No. If it works, it works. The Keyspan only can fix unreliable communications between the computer and cutter when trying to use the USB port on the cutter. If you are having no problems with the cutter doing weird things while you're using the USB port on the cutter, don't do anything. If, in the future, you start having weird glitches with the cutter, then it might be time to buy a Keyspan and use the serial port on the cutter to see if it resolves the issues.

Cool thanks!!! I was about to freak out!!! :blink:

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