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(adding edits / advise from users in red)

Purchasing my cutter on monday (tomorrow). I've been researching and toiling over the decision for about two years. Luckily for me, lack of funds narrowed my initial purchase options WAY down optimized my search criteria.

I have a background in web and graphics and I'm extremely proficient in AI, so I'm not 'too' intimidated by taking the leap. 99% of the work I do via my cutter will be stuck to a truck, trailor, dirtbike, or ATV.

Phase 1: intro cutter. mh-721 from usc @ $269.

I plan on practicing with this for a couple months. I already have a couple fleet vehicles lined up for simple jobs. And of course, have a garage full of dirt toys to practice on as well.

I plan on purchasing Oracal 651 for this. Is 651 good enough or should I make the jump to 751? The price doubles from 651 to 751... so I'd really want to know if it is worth it?

I really don't know what type of app tape I need to get. Any suggestions? And what size? I plan on buying a few rolls of 24 x 10y vinyl to cut my teeth on.

- Based on recommendation, I'll go with RTape AT60 from Coastal @ $18 for a 6.5" roll and go from there. If anyone wants to sell me 10yds of some 12 or 24"... I'd be interested.

I plan on purchasing my vinyl / app tape from usc. Any other recomendations (looking for best price)? I'll be unlicensed for a few months while I settle in to all of this... so that might affect what sellers I can buy from.

- recommendations for vinyl vendors: ordway sign supply, sign warehouse, coastal

Any glaring errors or omissions in phase 1?

Phase 2: intro press. something 15 x 15 and within earshot of $250. Now I know I'm not gonna get a rolls royce @ $250... but again, that's my budget. I'll just stand real close, listen for the timer, and cross my fingers a lot. I'll pick this intro press up within 4-6 weeks of getting my cutter.

- look into (sunie 15x15 and transpro 15x15 are both good options)

I'd like to be elbow deep in mx jerseys and custom mx t's by the thick of summer... Family and friends alone should keep me plenty busy.

Siser easy weed the way I want to go on this? Other recommendations?

- Spectra Eco-Film from imprintables

I had bookmarked a site where I can get white T's for $2 each, but can't find that bookmark. What would be my best couple of options for t-shirt suppliers? (EDIT, found it.. jiffyshirts)

Any glaring errors or omissions in phase 2?

- IR thermometer , teflon sheets

Phase 3: Printer. WF 1100 with CIS. Mind is made up. Would welcome any 'other' ideas, but price needs to be competitive though.

I'd like to expand my stickers and shirts into printed / cut.

What's the best vinyl to print / cut for outdoor stickers?

-Sihl 3988 / signwarehouse or allsquareonline.

-laminate with Oraguard 210

What's the best vinyl to print / cut for shirts?

-JPSS for white shirts and 3G Jet Opaque for darks

Is it worth it to print / cut my own vinyl for shirts? I know there are a lot of people I could farm that out to... but I just have a hard time letting go of the 'yep,,, did it all myself'.

If I tried real hard?... Would it be possible to contour cut utilizing reg marks via my printed media? What I mean is could I include reg marks on my printed media and set the cutter origin on those marks and essentially contour cut without the 'automation' of the contour provided by higher end cutters?? This would be kind of important / nice... as it could put some time between phase 3 and phase 4. Is it possible to do this?

-upgrade to flexistarter 10

Any glaring errors or omissions in phase 3?

Phase 4: Big boy cutter. IF I still enjoy this, and IF I'm making enough money to warrant continued investment... I'm thinking I'd like to get a Xen Green or Xen Black. And of course, if the money tree is watered regularly and gets plenty of sun... I'd be looking to step into a nicer heat press. Maybe something that pops automatically so I can make beer runs while the bird's in the oven.

And after all this, assuming the "IF's" are still flowing in my favor, I'll want to build a nice redneck 4 color screen printing station... although... I am real hung up on how I'm going to dry that ink. It's enough of a concern that I am in no hurry.

Thanks to anyone willing to chime in.

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seems like you got yourself a good plan. When you buy your printer, you should upgrade to flexistarter 10. With that you be able to contour cut with your cutter.

Good Luck!

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Phase 1: Good place to start. If you're sure you'll be upgrading the MH-721 later on, it will do fine as a starter cutter.

Oracal 651 is fine. No need to jump t the 751 unless you need cast vinyl. 651 is considered by many (myself included) to be the standard.

For app tape, I use and love RTape AT60. It's great and clear so decals are left very presentable for customers. If you're getting 24" rolls of vinyl I'd get a 6", 12" and maybe 24" roll of app tape. I buy 15" rolls of vinyl and use 6 1/2" and 10 1/2" app tape rolls (for small decals or one-offs and bigger decals. I may buy a 15" roll soon.

For sources, I buy from ordway sign supply, sign warehouse, and a few others. USC has the best price I've seen on 651 plus $9.99 flat rate shipping.

Phase 2: At your price range, the sunie 15x15 and transpro 15x15 are both good options. I bought the transpro, but returned it and have a MAXX 15x15 on the way. $450 more than the transpro, but it has the features and reliability I want in a press. You'll hear a lot of people say that the sunie and transpro presses are fine, and they are, but I prefer to pay a little bit more for something I place my own reputation and name on.

Easyweed is great, as is Spectra Eco-Film from imprintables. Some say they're the same material, and judging from samples of each I have they're extremely close. I use Eco-Film and have no complaints, and neither do my customers.

Yep jiffyshirts. I love that place. They're very close so shipping is one day for me. Good prices and free shipping over $75.

If you get a cheaper press, make sure to get an IR thermometer to check for temp uniformity. You also want teflon sheets for protecting your heating element and t-shirts from scorching. I bought 3 with my press.

Phase 3: I have the same printer with a CIS from Cobra Ink and love it. Very reliable and prints beautifully.

My printable vinyl of choice is Sihl 3988; you can get it from signwarehouse or allsquareonline. I laminate with Oraguard 210 after printing and then contour cut with my Graphtec CE5000-40. The results are very professional.

For t-shirts I use JPSS for white shirts and 3G Jet Opaque for darks. They both print and press beautifully.

I'm the same way about doing things myself. I don't like outsourcing at all.

You'll also be able to do things like mouse pads and coasters with JPSS.

Not sure about contour cutting on the MH cutters...

Phas 4: A better cutter is definitely worth it in the long run. 24" may be the biggest you'll need. Gauge which materials you'll be buying and what sizes. I did this and realized I didn't need a 24" cutter right away. That coupled with the fact that in a year I'll be buying my dream cutter (Graphtec FC8000-60) I decided on the Graphtec CE5000-40. It's great. It's dentical to the CE5000-60 in all aspects, just 15" instead of 24". It fit my needs, and with the money I saved over buying the -60 I bought my heat press.

Like I said, I originally bought a transpro 15x15, but wanted the better warranty, reliability and features of the MAXX 15x15. Hopefully next year I'll be able to get my dream press, the Hotronix 16x20 auto open. The MAXX 15x15 will serve me well until then, I'm sure. With the transpro, I wasn't sure 100% that I could rely on it to hold me over until I get my Hotronix next year..

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boosted, I'll look into that. Thank you!

Nitewalker, WOW. THANK YOU! Lots of great info.

adding edits and recommendations to first post.

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Sounds good to me.

Only suggestion I have is when buying equipment you know you're going to upgrade, try to buy used or on the cheap. That way you're not taking a huge depreciation hit if you sell in the future, and you can make your money back quicker.

For instance... I started large format printing about a year ago. Started with a HP OfficeJet 7000, got it for $99 at staples. Used that till I made $700 from it, then went and got a used Encad 750 54" Printer. Ran that till I made $2100 off it, sold it for $1000 and then got a brand new Canon ImagePrograf 24" (better quality, less aggravation). Probably will keep the canon for a while, but may buy another 44" canon with what the 24" is making.

Point is.... spend less and you make more to buy better in the future. :D

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If you ever want to do contour cutting, consider the LaserPoint 24 (LP24) cutter with the laser sight, or even a Graphtec which can detect reg marks on its own. I use my LP24 for contour-cutting all the time. You can do contour cutting on a Refine but it's going to be a lot trickier. I imagine you will want to do contour cutting for your shirt designs. I plan to get into shirts as well and this was just one reason I wanted contour-cutting capability. (Heh, alliteration).

Your methodical approach is revealing lots of information. :D

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If you ever want to do contour cutting, consider the LaserPoint 24 (LP24) cutter with the laser sight, or even a Graphtec which can detect reg marks on its own. I use my LP24 for contour-cutting all the time. You can do contour cutting on a Refine but it's going to be a lot trickier. I imagine you will want to do contour cutting for your shirt designs. I plan to get into shirts as well and this was just one reason I wanted contour-cutting capability. (Heh, alliteration).

Your methodical approach is revealing lots of information. :D

If I buy an LP24 I'll want to rely on it a good bit longer than a 721... Is the contour cut on the LP's worthy of the price?

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If I buy an LP24 I'll want to rely on it a good bit longer than a 721... Is the contour cut on the LP's worthy of the price?

If you want to contour cut on a budget cutter, absolutely! I bought mine with the express intent to do contour cutting. It took a few tries (and help) to get it working, but I'm glad I got it. I might even get a Graphtec later on, or if for some reason my LP24 breaks down.

If you have any idea that you want to contour cut and you are on a budget, go with the LP24, otherwise I'd recommend a Graphtec which has no-fuss contour cutting and automated registration. With the LP you have to manually align your laser with your registration marks. The better your alignment of course, the more precise your cuts.

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I have decided to go ahead and go with the LP 24". It'll be a couple more weeks before I can purchase it though. to be continued.....

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slowly tranqilo amigo

dont bay nothing

sell selll

u go to a restourand ask why do the dont have a sign , u go to a grocery store do the same every body need sign's

small big whatever

do i sound etalian?

any way my history:

24" rolabd

50" MH1351 KNOWN AS "themotherfucker"

my last peches:

MIMAKI JV 3 SP 2 ! (i get plesent chilled when im writin this one)

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I have decided to go ahead and go with the LP 24". It'll be a couple more weeks before I can purchase it though. to be continued.....

You may want to watch ebay there are some good prices on cutters from us cutter on there. I won my p cut there for 225.0 quite a good deal i think.

Dan

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I have decided to go ahead and go with the LP 24". It'll be a couple more weeks before I can purchase it though. to be continued.....

And a great choice it is! Good luck with everything, you know where to come for help. :D

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ordered my LP 24" today!

I picked up some test vinyl (a roll of black and a roll of white), a roll of RT60, and a 5 pack of squeegees. Soooo stoked.

Got my tracking numbers and so excited I'm pretty much useless... till it gets here.

Edited by ShowAndGo

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I got my cutter yesterday! Many thanks to the members here for the help and info. Here's what I went with to kick off Phase 1.

Laserpoint 24" with stand.

Cutter was impressive out of the box.

Stand assembly was moderately annoying... USC needs to step up and provide better instructions.

I connected, fearfully (did not purchase keyspan connector), via USB to my Win 7 PC and had ZERO issues.

Two rolls of 15" x 10yd Oracal 651 (black and white)

After the scrap produced from the first cuts... I was glad I didn't initially go with 24" vinyl.

Overall impression of the vinyl was very nice.

One roll of RTA60 app tape @ 6.5" x 100yds for $17 from USC.

Worked good. Had a little trouble getting the vinyl to stick to it instead of the vinyl backing. Did I go from cutter to install too fast? Did I not squeegee it hard enough when I applied the tape?

Some cheap squeegees from USC.

Pretty simple stuff. No complaints.

I installed SignCut Prod Pro (lic came with cutter purchase). I only opened the program and looked around a little. I think I will like the program... but SBE looked easier and I really wanted to cut as quickly as I could so I didn't take the time to figure it out.

SBE, free. I was able to cut... literally within 15 minutes of starting the program for the first time. Not really impressed though. My love affair with SBE kind of ends there.

Pen install. Easy. Fun to try. Not much else to say. The directions that came with the cutter had me 'plotting' in about 2 minutes. Pretty cool.

Blade install. Destructions said to have 1/64" of an inch of the blade exposed from the blade holder. I have no F'ing clue how long 1/64" is in the real world. No picture to 'go by' or anything. Kinda annoyed by that. I ended up making the blade stick out as much as the end of the pen in the plotter tool. I hope that is correct. (cuts were good though)

Using the cutter... Pretty easy, pretty straight forward. The only thing I don't like about it is that if I don't run out about 5" of vinyl to overlap the front of the cutter the vinyl binds in the gap on the front of the cutter causing the cutter to cut weird lines in places it is not supposed to cut. I did two cuts... one with about an inch of vinyl sticking out the front before cutting (I'm a cheap ass).... and one cut with about 5" of vinyl sticking out. The 5" lead worked, the 1" lead did not. I'm thinking about covering that gap with tape or something so I can go back to being a cheap ass.

Overall, The cutter was simple to install and the directions got me close enough to be dangerous (although they could use a little help). Value vinyl cutters need better instructions as they are typicaly being sold, I presume, to people that have never touched / assembled / or operated them. Food for thought USC.

I love the cutter. I stand firmly by my decision to spend a couple $ more and get the one I did. Oh, and that basket came in handy Real Fast!

First attempt at weeding. LOL. I think I figured out that weeding requires 3 core elements (none were on hand last night). Patience, Practice, and LIGHTING. Tonight, I will address the lighting and practice. Patience,,,, well I've been trying to develop that for 37 years and haven't really gotten anywhere on that front.

Final thoughts... No regrets on anything I purchased. 15" vinyl is perfect and cost effective to start out on. I skimped in size, but not quality and I'm good with that.

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I got my feet wet with Signcut last night and do indeed prefer it over SBE. I do all of my work in AI... those two products seem to work in conjunction with each other very nicel.

I also discovered 'weeding lines' in Signcut. Whew! I like weeding lines.

Night 1 with the cutter, try some simple shapes from my sons racing team and some prototype logos for my vinyl biz.

Night 2 with the cutter, took my first shot at a 2 color layer. Only ruined one layer of white and some reg marks in the process!

post-8651-0-91317200-1300982616_thumb.jp

post-8651-0-19367000-1300982698_thumb.jp

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Followup on Phase 1:

Phase 1: LP 24 from usc @ $499.

Vinyl initially purchasd: 651 black, 651 white, 651 red. And still need to buy silver, orange, and blue. Very pleased with 651.

App tape: RTape AT60 in 6.5 and 15" widths (15" is the size of vinyl I'm starting on). Very pleased with AT60.

Vinyl suppliers: USCutter, good prices and $10 flat rate shipping. Fellers, price match and a local pickup in a pinch.

Things I missed initially, but figured out quickly:

Build an app tape roller, $5.

Buy or build a BS yard sign tool for applying app tape and layering.

Spend a couple $ more and get some small squeegees With the felt tip.

Cutting mat is needed, I picked up a dahle 18x24 for $25 shipped from dickblick. (thx Nitewalker!)

Some important things I learned:

Youtube has some awesome layering videos. Don't try to layer without watching them first. It is really easy to layer, it is, as soon as you've seen someone else do it.

Weeding lines (insert in your cutting software) are a gift from the heavens.

If you have a cheaper cutter, turn it off and back on in between big cuts... clears the memory.

Bounce dryer sheets are great for cutting down static. I keep a sheet tucked in all my rolls. Worth it? I dunno, but I 'think' it is working.

Application = Practice... it is really easy once you've done a few, and there are some great youtube vids on how to do it. top hinge, center hinge, etc...

Application wet vs. dry? I'm planning on only dry applications. Just not even considering wet, until absolutely mandatory.

Pricing... HA! Still working on that, by my math I can put out a (651) 1 sq ft decal with AT60 on top for $.51 in materials. And depending on quantity ordered, I plan on baselining @ $1 per sq inch until I get pricing completely figured out.

Shipping, using usps and walmart envelopes I can ship a handfull of decals up to 10x13 for about $1.50 anywhere in the US. I add $2 per order for shipping right off the bat.

Social media is my only form of advertising and I'm already quoting jobs for a motorcycle dealership, a roller derby team, 2 websites, and a couple small businesses. Hopefully soon I'll have some customer job pictures to share.

Next on deck was supposed to be phase II (heat press)... but If I land the motorcycle dealership, I'll need to contour cut decals and phase three may jump to the front... but that heat press is looming large. I'm getting a lot of requests for t's.

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sounds like you have a great start going. For your contour cutting decals, consider farming it out to one of the guys on here. Stetson and Jfought both do great work. This will allow you to go ahead with the heat press but still be able to provide contour cut decals at the same time.

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sounds like you have a great start going. For your contour cutting decals, consider farming it out to one of the guys on here. Stetson and Jfought both do great work. This will allow you to go ahead with the heat press but still be able to provide contour cut decals at the same time.

I've been struggling with that (farming out work). :)

I went and talked to a friend of the family that does race cars for a living last weekend and his shop was AMAZING!!! He does semi's, race cars, x-games motorcycles, everything.... it rivals anything you see in a fellers catalogue. I got the tour of the facility and talked tech for a few minutes... then left. He has to have 100K in cutters and printers and laminators. As I got in my truck to leave my buddy asked me what I was gonna cut when I got home and I said "not a damm thing, I'm boxing it up and selling what little I have. I can't compete with that."

By the time I got home I was ready to cut something though. I'm too hard headed to quit anything. It did serve as a great reminder of how far I have to go... and how much work it will take to get there - but my oh my would it be worth it.

I'll keep stets and jfought in mind. I follow them closely on here.

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...

Laserpoint 24" with stand.

...

Blade install. Destructions said to have 1/64" of an inch of the blade exposed from the blade holder. I have no F'ing clue how long 1/64" is in the real world. No picture to 'go by' or anything. Kinda annoyed by that. I ended up making the blade stick out as much as the end of the pen in the plotter tool. I hope that is correct. (cuts were good though)

Using the cutter... Pretty easy, pretty straight forward. The only thing I don't like about it is that if I don't run out about 5" of vinyl to overlap the front of the cutter the vinyl binds in the gap on the front of the cutter causing the cutter to cut weird lines in places it is not supposed to cut. I did two cuts... one with about an inch of vinyl sticking out the front before cutting (I'm a cheap ass).... and one cut with about 5" of vinyl sticking out. The 5" lead worked, the 1" lead did not. I'm thinking about covering that gap with tape or something so I can go back to being a cheap ass.

Thought I'd add some comments...

Great cutter (MY PCUT is the same).

I have to say "sorry" for not posting about that ridge at the front of the cutter. I wanted to and didn't get to it. Yes, it catches the vinyl and will cause stray cuts. I "fixed" mine with a strip of duck tape all the way across. Just make sure the edge of the tape is in the middle on one of the concave flutes of the aluminum above it or the tape edge will also catch the vinyl. Works great!

As far as blade height. I found none of the usual suggestions worked correctly for me. Not even the "half the thickness of a credit card" one. I posted on how I adjusted mine and it now works just fine even on tiny graphics here:

Maybe that will help...

Have fun with it all. And boy, you're sure going a lot farther than I intend to. Good luck!

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You guys did not do enough research . the duct tape thing & the blade adjustment thing has been posted a zillion times or 2 :D . that kind of good advice is good to repeat :thumbsup:

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Got my LE WF1100 today!

WOW. (that's all i got... just wow) Time to buy a bigger desk.

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wow, you are way over thinking this, 2 years for a 1k-2k investment? just figure your cost, find out the markup for your area by getting a couple of things quoted locally, watch some how-to's, ask the occasional question or two about material types, take into consideration its usage, (for instance, don't use top of the line vinyl on a dirt bike, because its going to get dirty, its going to get scratched, and it will need replaced.)

i worked in a sign shop for a couple of years, I have a degree in graphic arts, and I actually forgot all about the vinyl industry until I was looking for something to spend my tax money on. All it took for me was a $1200 investment, and 2-3 months later i've already made back my money, have $1000 in the bank, more supplies in house than I started, and a whole bunch of work i haven't even started yet. I've not even handed out 1 business card or advertised at all.

i really think you are causing yourself more grief than required. you will make mistakes, you will probably have to redo a couple of jobs here and there, and you may piss off a customer once in a while, but really the only way you can fail is by not charging enough, or just making stupid decisions, like buying top of the line vinyl for a dirt bike. I mean really, we're talking plastic stickers that peel off. you can replace, or remove anything you have to, and no harm, no foul, you're out a few dollars, and you hopefully learn from your mistakes so it doesn't happen again.

don't spend all your time thinking about how to implement you business, just do it, otherwise the guy down the street will beat you to the punch.

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Got my Sunie 20x16 press from the fedex man bright and early this morning. all equipment bought and delivered... now to go make some money.

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Had my first Uh oh moment with the heat press. Forgot to put the teflon down and now I have a lovely graphic stuck to the top of my press. Grrrrrr. Any easy recommendations on how to remove that? Heat it up and press it on a piece of scrap fabric??

Been doing a lot of custom layered vinyl decals for a customer and that has had me completely booked solid for the last two weeks. The money is starting to trickle in.... but not as fast as the orders are. No complaints.

Discovered google docs, great free way to do invoicing over the internet. I recommend. I also use google docs to keep track of all of my order / status. I just email clients the link to the specific sheet that has their info on it.

Got the WF1100 dialed in on printed stickers, very excited with the quality it puts out. I'm printing to Sihl 3988. Only thing that has held me back is I've been using the free 3m overlam and I ruin 1-2 stickers per sheet (11x17) with wrinkles. Stressful. I ordered my Oracal 210 this morning, hopefully that stuff is easier to work with. I'm using a BS to put the lam down.

My offset on my LP24 is wonky right now, it cuts like a champ on normal vinyl jobs. I've done 30 or so real jobs on it and have a real good feel for the in's and out's of the process. Where I'm up a creek is on the contour cuts. It seems as if my X cal is off. I searched this forum and read all the threads but that didn't really fix my issue. I found a pdf on signcut's website this morning.... so i'll try that out tonight and cross my fingers.

I did an easyweed shirt the other day, first shirt! interesting name,,, doesn't seem that dang easy to weed to me. quality once applied was very nice. very happy with the final product.

After my easyweed test, I ran an 3G Jet Opaque test sheet through the printer and applied it. I was slightly disappointed with the color. It just didn't have as "much" pop as I had hoped for. I'll just keep testing my printer settings. (normal paper bright white, photo quality, epson vivid). I did do a test print in max photo quality mode or whatever that is called... but that is the one that is stuck to the top of my press.... so that is where I am right now.

The 16x20 sunie seems very nice. no complaints so far.

I bought 8.5x11 sheets of jpss and 3g jet for doing T's with. Every time I try to contour cut them I have to either only print 2/3rds of the page so it don't advance too far, or put it on a carriage sheet (which was a forum recommendation). Putting it on a carriage sheet annoys me. I don't know why, but it just pisses me off. So there is more to figure out there. I don't like only getting 2/3rds of a sheet to be usefull. If I can return my unopened jpss, I'd rather get the 11x17 size (coastal).

How much vinyl has to be sticking out of the back of the cutter so it doesn't get out from under the rollers and ruin your cut?? 2", 4"?

I've been splitting my orders 50/50 with USC and Fellars. Fellars was great to deal with in the beginning because of price matching and local pickup... but they've made a few changes over the last 3 weeks and have really rubbed me the wrong way. Looks like I'll forego (for the mostpart) the local pickup and give the majority of my business to USC.

I have 2 t-shirt designs ready to press and will have them knocked out by Saturday at 6'oclock. The first shirt design is named... the "6 oclock" shirt. These are going to be retail shirts for my MX brand (motocross) casual wear. I did a website for a photographer a few weeks back as professional trade. He's bringing an entire studio out to my house this saturday.... at 6 oclock, and is going to do a photo shoot of us riding and whatnot. I'm going to use the photo's as my business adverts. Pretty stoked. For those of you into photography, He plans on shooting us in the style of Joel Grimes. It should be awesome.

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And since you can't work ALL the time. This is me a couple weekends back. I have a 45' tabletop in my back yard. We spent a solid week grooming it for the summer. Put an extra foot of height on the lip and set it to some rediculous slope. I don't know what degree it is, but it launches pretty hard. Up close, it looks more like a wall than a lip. I'm not pleased with this pic, I was getting a solid 5' higher pop all day... then the camera came out and I pulled a dud.

post-8651-0-78289400-1305134136_thumb.jp

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