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Guest fivestar

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Cant' we all just be friends?:D?   It really doesn't have to be a pi##in match - nobody wins

Good to see ya Rodger  :(

  :thumbsup: , I agree , that is what needs to be accomplished !!! IMO ( actually I am sure ) ... the current issue ( linking another vinyl forum ) is NOT the problem . I am not sure what the exact problem is , but it stems from when Ken Imes left USCutter , how he left & the short drama that ensued afterwards . It really never has ever been over for some members & about the same time there was some discontent that wound up with 5 & FM stepping down from their MOD positions . Ken was a GREAT asset to USCutter & the forum . As dedicated & as liked as Ken was , anybody taking his place had an almost impossible job to replace him because of the friendship/bonding we all had with him . Brandon had that task & did well IMO . I know enough about business to know Brandon does not do as he pleases , he has to follow company policy & I'm sure that policy changed when he was hired . USCutter's policy about it's forum changed at the same time . It got boring & very stale with the drama that some has not let go away since Ken left . That has contributed to many members staying away or not participating as much . The real problem came to a boil recently . The recent issue is about respect more than linking another vinyl forum . I could not believe USCutter allowed so much negative comments & linking to competitors for the past year or so from many new members & also long time members , so I know linking the vinyl forum recently is not the issue .. just the way it was done & stated . When two people are itching for a fight .. it doesn't really matter what the fight starts over . IMO , Life is too short & the world is too big of a place to let stuff like this go on . Like Dakota states , nobody wins . It is easier & better to let things go . While the drama can be entertaining for a bit .. not even Thor or me likes it to go on as long as it has  ;D .

I didn't want to respond again , just felt obligated to call a spade a spade & let anybody who did not know this is not about linking to another vinyl site ... from as best as I can tell an ego/authority/respect & personality conflict stemming from everybodies hero Ken leaving USCutter . Things change & life goes on .

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Nothing makes me want to leave or compete with a forum faster than censorship. I haven't been directly hit by this alleged censorship at USC, but we have to realize, it's 2010 and in the age of Google on cell phones, nobody is really going to keep any information from anyone. What will happen is that censorship will disenfranchise members and cause them to leave or worse, create a competing site and still worse, boycott your products.

It's one thing if members are linking to actual competitors, but linking to another vinyl forum shouldn't be a big deal....and of course, one has to study closely why people feel compelled to leave in the first place. All this drama for what, preventing someone linking to somewhere else, or percieved competition? Members at USC are there at will, and USC should not be so insecure as to censor reasonable links. I've been all over the competition's sites. I know exactly what my choices are, but I bought my cutter from USC because they had a good price of course, because of their great forum. I made this choice not out of ignorance or lack of choices, but because I liked the great support I saw on this forum. I don't think USC has anything to be insecure about.

Forums are like mini-governments, and members are heavily affected by the forum admin/moderators. I am an admin on one forum, a mod on a motorcycle forum (almost 10,000 members) and unfairly banned on a certain car forum. I left another motorcycle forum because the amount of stupidity there was insane and unchecked.

The forum I am banned on did so because I spoke out against censorship, so I started a competing forum. It's a different market and I don't have an easy way to get access to users, but I am working on it and even had cards printed up which go along with every product I sell to users. Either way, now the banning-site has a very active member who is working against them, because a few moderators couldn't handle me at full-strength. They've created a highly-sensitized, politically-correct environment with moderators appointed by nepotism, who all seem to share unmitigated power with smug disregard for fairness. Any disagreement would get threads locked, closed, split and often in ways to make a certain person look bad, and the users all walk on eggshells. Walking on eggshells never worked for me, because I speak my mind in a reasonable way, but some people won't like what I have to say.

A well-moderated board should be almost transparent to the user, without invasive rules or restrictions which stifle the user's free expression (assuming the user isn't using the forum to spam porn, C14L15, V14GR4 or something clearly inappropriate). No forum is too big to fail.

Censorship kills forums. Actually, it causes revolutions, and starting a new forum on the Interwebz

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i dont get on the pc much  anymore, so i dont post a lot and most of you dont know me, but i feel i have to add my 2 cents, i bought an mh871 about 2 years ago, not knowing anything much about plotters, other than i wanted one to make airbrush masks with,,my decision to go with a us cutter wasnt one made over the cost as much as it was over the fact that it had such a huge forum following,,i knew if i ran into problems, and had how to questions, i could more than likely find my answers here, and its been great for that,,,,,censorship, in 2010, is utterly ridiculous, as stated before with the internet and i phones etc.,,,,when you run off everyone with knowledge, the only ones left, are those seeking knowledge, then you have bad information and poor busniess practices passed on, and thats a no win situation for everyone involved,,,forums were designed to share information, teach, enhance, and to learn from  one another,,,

sorry if ive stepped on toes or outworn my welcome, but censorship is the last thing we need, on any forum or venue, not taking sides here, freedom of speech, is one of the things service men and women have died for, just so we can argue on places like this :thumbsup:

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  5 is a good friend of mine who I respect & like alot . He was 1 of the 1rst good friends I got here .

  From what I have read the past year & see currently , I know it is NOT about censorship AT ALL ! It was the way things were said & stated between 5 & Brandon recently , not the link . The link is in several members signature line now & still listed in several threads .,, no censorship there !!!  Almost at the same time about a year or so ago ; a USCutter president was hired , Ken ( main Tech & hero of this forum ) & USCutter parted ways , the Mods & USCutter management had some big issue that resulted in 5 ( FiveStar ) & FM ( FireMalt ) stepping down as Mods right away . A fight has been brewing ever since . MUCH drama & discontent . I suggested settling it then & am very surprised it took this long to blowup . Some would not let it fade away . There is nothing wrong with being members of many forums including Vinylforum .  I have read thru it , it seems nice & helpfull except for the bashing threads against USCutter/personal & vindictive posts . I like everybody involved . I have had good friends fall out & start hating each other . I am still friends with each of them . Same way with this situation . Whatever problems the key people in this dispute have with each other , it does not effect my friendship with each of them . There is a big " be my friend & that means you are not their friend " going on . People are going out of their way to act out that elementary school mentality ( Not all elementary kids act out that way , just the dramatic types  :thumbsup: ) .

The truth will always do & anybody manipulating the actual truth about this matter needs to grow up IMO . This fire should not be fanned , it should be let die out , hence my final thought on it  :thumbsup:

I hope the bridges are not burned any further .

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 5 is a good friend of mine who I respect & like alot . He was 1 of the 1rst good friends I got here .

 From what I have read the past year & see currently , I know it is NOT about censorship AT ALL ! It was the way things were said & stated between 5 & Brandon recently , not the link . The link is in several members signature line now & still listed in several threads .,, no censorship there !!!  Almost at the same time about a year or so ago ; a USCutter president was hired , Ken ( main Tech & hero of this forum ) & USCutter parted ways , the Mods & USCutter management had some big issue that resulted in 5 ( FiveStar ) & FM ( FireMalt ) stepping down as Mods right away . A fight has been brewing ever since . MUCH drama & discontent . I suggested settling it then & am very surprised it took this long to blowup . Some would not let it fade away . There is nothing wrong with being members of many forums including Vinylforum .  I have read thru it , it seems nice & helpfull except for the bashing threads against USCutter/personal & vindictive posts . I like everybody involved . I have had good friends fall out & start hating each other . I am still friends with each of them . Same way with this situation . Whatever problems the key people in this dispute have with each other , it does not effect my friendship with each of them . There is a big " be my friend & that means you are not their friend " going on . People are going out of their way to act out that elementary school mentality ( Not all elementary kids act out that way , just the dramatic types  :thumbsup: ) .

The truth will always do & anybody manipulating the actual truth about this matter needs to grow up IMO . This fire should not be fanned , it should be let die out , hence my final thought on it  :thumbsup:

I hope the bridges are not burned any further .

Just to clarify there is only 1 thread and it is connected to this one . . . . in all other cases everyone is helped equally and friendly no matter what the affiliation is.

hopefully all this can be put to rest and all can move on - it has lasted long enough.  fivestar and firemalt are friends and I am privileged to have learned from them and continue to do so.  sometimes the younger people need to learn humility - I think this festered because of the lack of help by the USC staff as we had before with Ken.  He was on helping people all the time and all times of the night - that does breed some respect from people.  When that was gone, along with the company support to the forum members and moderators, people got tired of doing it all by themselves with no company input other than some occasional deletions.  More people digging in their heals lately caused this to explode.  Now with the added USC support on the forum, if it continues this will pass and things will settle down.   The bad side is many experienced members had to move on to make the change.  Moving on remember that those that do not study history are bound to repeat is . . .

As far as vinyl forum, it is helping everyone like they used to do here and getting more people interested in buying cutters and keeping those with cutters happy - USC still has the lowest prices on ebay and will continue sell them to many - now they have 2 places to get help

Remember respect is earned not freely given due to position

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i dont get on the pc much  anymore, so i dont post a lot and most of you dont know me, but i feel i have to add my 2 cents, i bought an mh871 about 2 years ago, not knowing anything much about plotters, other than i wanted one to make airbrush masks with,,my decision to go with a us cutter wasnt one made over the cost as much as it was over the fact that it had such a huge forum following,,i knew if i ran into problems, and had how to questions, i could more than likely find my answers here, and its been great for that,,,,,censorship, in 2010, is utterly ridiculous, as stated before with the internet and i phones etc.,,,,when you run off everyone with knowledge, the only ones left, are those seeking knowledge, then you have bad information and poor busniess practices passed on, and thats a no win situation for everyone involved,,,forums were designed to share information, teach, enhance, and to learn from  one another,,,

sorry if ive stepped on toes or outworn my welcome, but censorship is the last thing we need, on any forum or venue, not taking sides here, freedom of speech, is one of the things service men and women have died for, just so we can argue on places like this :thumbsup:

That is an excellent post and you should visit www.vinylforum.org if you haven't already.  Those people help each other out over there.

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wow, all my digging around on the forum and never once any drama  :thumbsup:

Was actually nice to come and read the posts, get educated and seeing everyone helping everyone else.

Not something you see much of these days...

Not sure exactly what happened and probably shouldn't add my 2cents but did see something said about someone advertising another forum... It is a business, if you advertise a site that's the same topic as this, you'll pull some of the people from this site and with that, you essentially take away advertising from the owner. I run about 20 different sites and strip the tag lines from any members signature advertising another web site, then email them and explain why. Why should I pay for the server, bandwidth, maintenance just to let someone pull my members and advertise for free? I see that as allowing a competitor into my store and sharing my customer database, all active bids, pretty much giving them full access to everything that makes my business uniquely mine.

On to a different topic since everyone seems to be abandoning ship, I personally would like to thank those that have contributed to the forums. I've been looking at cutters on and off for a few years and finally broke down and bought a mh871 about a month ago. And with no clue what i was doing, outside of reading the forums, as of about an hour ago i did a 4 color logo on my store front door. Without the forums here and those that contributed to it, I'd probably still be staring at the rolls of vinyl trying to figure out wth to do with them.

So for those still around and reading this, many thanks! :thumbsup:

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............. just to let someone pull my member.............

wish i had someone pull my member, its been a while......

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............. just to let someone pull my member.............

wish i had someone pull my member, its been a while......

  :thumbsup: LOL , That is good stuff Deth502 .. Great humor  :thumbsup: ! I think  my buddy Thor is getting too old to think of what was meant by " member " ... He wants his " number " pulled here ( all his posts etc )

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On to a different topic since everyone seems to be abandoning ship, I personally would like to thank those that have contributed to the forums. I've been looking at cutters on and off for a few years and finally broke down and bought a mh871 about a month ago. And with no clue what i was doing, outside of reading the forums, as of about an hour ago i did a 4 color logo on my store front door. Without the forums here and those that contributed to it, I'd probably still be staring at the rolls of vinyl trying to figure out wth to do with them.

So for those still around and reading this, many thanks! :thumbsup:

Nice post Bayotle ,

Thank you for your post ! I appreciate your perspective & also agree :thumbsup: . I am sure there will be plenty of knowledgeable members still around after things calm down . I think being a large presence on both forums like Dakota ( ;D ) is doing will be what many members will wind up doing . There has been several vinyl forums all along & there has always been members stepping up when some members leave or stop being as active . Many times it depends on how much time a member has to spend in front of a computer . Speedy  :) is not only the fastest responder 99% of the time , she is very knowledgeable & extremely helpful  :) . Mars has also taken up alot of slack lately  ;D .

IMO , It doesn't have to be 1 forum or another . I'm sure both forums will always have some discontent , but get to where it stays friendly & warm feelings will abound .

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To all of the 'knee-jerkers' who wish to abandon this forum.....

            be careful what you wish for.

See the forest for the trees, not the other way around. There's alot of good info here on the forum, and some great members, too. You think there's no censorship over there??? Go on and keep thinking that....at your expense.

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To all of the 'knee-jerkers' who wish to abandon this forum.....

            be careful what you wish for.

See the forest for the trees, not the other way around. There's alot of good info here on the forum, and some great members, too. You think there's no censorship over there??? Go on and keep thinking that....at your expense.

pot stirring at both ends huh orbit??

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Nice post Bayotle ,

Thank you for your post ! I appreciate your perspective & also agree :thumbsup: . I am sure there will be plenty of knowledgeable members still around after things calm down . I think being a large presence on both forums like Dakota ( :thumbsup: ) is doing will be what many members will wind up doing . There has been several vinyl forums all along & there has always been members stepping up when some members leave or stop being as active . Many times it depends on how much time a member has to spend in front of a computer . Speedy  :) is not only the fastest responder 99% of the time , she is very knowledgeable & extremely helpful  ;D . Mars has also taken up alot of slack lately  :) .

IMO , It doesn't have to be 1 forum or another . I'm sure both forums will always have some discontent , but get to where it stays friendly & warm feelings will abound .

Thanks Roger for the heads up and pointing me to the others, I'm sure they'll appreciate me knocking on their door at all hours of the morning with dumb questions!  :thumbsup:

Being hard core geek and obessing with things I'm sure I'll end up contributing at some point - I always tend to push things to their limits just to find out all the bells and whistles :)

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To all of the 'knee-jerkers' who wish to abandon this forum.....

            be careful what you wish for.

See the forest for the trees, not the other way around. There's alot of good info here on the forum, and some great members, too. You think there's no censorship over there??? Go on and keep thinking that....at your expense.

pot stirring at both ends huh orbit??

I'm not sure, Dakota, what was meant by your comment. This saying is alien to me as I've never heard it before. I will, however, take the high road and assume that nothing was derogatory about your response since it shouldn't have stirred a debate within the context in which it was written.

I, personally, loathe censorship in the form of shutting down debate or the free-flow of information. And that appears to be the situation in one case I was involved in with only 11 posts on my account while at vinylforum.org.

The forum here will continue to be my primary source of info, with yours to be a casual secondary outlet. BTW, I say 'yours' as you have the large caps in red advertising it while on this forum.

Again, no harm intended.

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Thanks Roger for the heads up and pointing me to the others, I'm sure they'll appreciate me knocking on their door at all hours of the morning with dumb questions!  :thumbsup:

Being hard core geek and obessing with things I'm sure I'll end up contributing at some point - I always tend to push things to their limits just to find out all the bells and whistles :thumbsup:

YW , we all have knocked at others doors  :thumbsup: . It is a good feeling to be able to give back for good folks , some folks could care less about giving back . I don't have much technical skill or alot of experience with vinyl , but enjoy helping others with what I can . I also enjoy intelligent discussions & debates as long as the truth or reality is what is sought out , instead of just trying to win the discussion/debate .

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Hey Thor , there you go making me look up a definition ( guffaw )  :thumbsup: . No need to leave IMO . Ever hear the saying " let the 1rst 1 without sin cast the 1rst stone " ? I'm not religious , but I do believe in the theory behind that saying . Seems the other forum is already tired of members trying to run/tell how to run the forum . Members are members & administrators are administrators , but the owner has the final say so . From my viewpoint , all of the discontent here & there is from members wanting to run the forum as they see fit , not as the owner wants . I think both owners/administrators have bent over backwards & then some , but there is no satisfying some members . There is no need to cause more damage or burn any bridges  :thumbsup: .

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Hey Thor , there you go making me look up a definition ( guffaw )  ;D . No need to leave IMO . Ever hear the saying " let the 1rst 1 without sin cast the 1rst stone " ? I'm not religious , but I do believe in the theory behind that saying . Seems the other forum is already tired of members trying to run/tell how to run the forum . Members are members & administrators are administrators , but the owner has the final say so . From my viewpoint , all of the discontent here & there is from members wanting to run the forum as they see fit , not as the owner wants . I think both owners/administrators have bent over backwards & then some , but there is no satisfying some members . There is no need to cause more damage or burn any bridges  :thumbsup: .

I agree wholeheartedly.  I still come here, and I still value this place as a resource (and have said so on the other board). I'm more against censorship than for it. Yes a couple threads got locked instead of moved.  Now all threads just get moved to Off-Topic and are allowed to continue there, unless it devolves into a personal attack, of course.  Some members don't want posts moved and at the same time want thread titles to be cleaned up and spell checked for the OP.  You can't have it both ways. Like you said, there's no satisfying everyone. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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It has nothing to do with spelling, I closed my account over there because forums are not place for any racial or ethnic remarks.

You should know it because you refused to listen what I was about to say.

I did not ask admins or mods or anybody else to do anything about it, I just mentioned  how I feel about it.

I did not feel comfortable on  Vinyl forum because of those remarks and that was the reason I closed my account there.

I had privilege to meat  lots of nice people and I wish them the best.

As of some mods they should read the post before they jump in conclusion .

This forum is place where I've start and learn a lot (still learning)

There is place and time for everything .

Thanks for reading this

D

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That's fine, and you're entitled to that opinion.  Your original posts show that you were upset by the use of the "f word" and you freely admitted the content of the shared graphic did not offend you.  All that was asked was that you report posts that offend and they would be dealt with on a case by case basis.  That's all we can do. 

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That one was not the only post with same "topic".

You were the one who broke thread at half so it appeared like I was the one who started something.

Also, why did  you guys locked thread I started ( "Good Bye")

I'm not looking for someone to please me (I'm married and that would be her responsibility )but please do not pee on my back and tell me its raining.

I do not want to go any deeper and further with this discussion, so please if you do not want to understand my point  leave me out of any childish discussion.

Thank you

Dariyo

PS

And NO I was not offended by shared file/graphics, because I know who I'm and what I'm.(people who know me can tell you same thing)

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Hey Thor , there you go making me look up a definition ( guffaw )  :thumbsup: . No need to leave IMO . Ever hear the saying " let the 1rst 1 without sin cast the 1rst stone " ? I'm not religious , but I do believe in the theory behind that saying . Seems the other forum is already tired of members trying to run/tell how to run the forum . Members are members & administrators are administrators , but the owner has the final say so . From my viewpoint , all of the discontent here & there is from members wanting to run the forum as they see fit , not as the owner wants . I think both owners/administrators have bent over backwards & then some , but there is no satisfying some members . There is no need to cause more damage or burn any bridges  :thumbsup: .

I agree wholeheartedly.  I still come here, and I still value this place as a resource (and have said so on the other board). I'm more against censorship than for it. Yes a couple threads got locked instead of moved.  Now all threads just get moved to Off-Topic and are allowed to continue there, unless it devolves into a personal attack, of course.  Some members don't want posts moved and at the same time want thread titles to be cleaned up and spell checked for the OP.  You can't have it both ways. Like you said, there's no satisfying everyone. :):thumbsup:

  ;D

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That one was not the only post with same "topic".

You were the one who broke thread at half so it appeared like I was the one who started something.

Also, why did  you guys locked thread I started ( "Good Bye")

I'm not looking for someone to please me (I'm married and that would be her responsibility )but please do not pee on my back and tell me its raining.

I do not want to go any deeper and further with this discussion, so please if you do not want to understand my point  leave me out of any childish discussion.

Thank you

Dariyo

PS

And NO I was not offended by shared file/graphics, because I know who I'm and what I'm.(people who know me can tell you same thing)

I'm not sure why your thread got locked other than a few people asked for it to be. I split the thread to divide up the graphic from the discussion that ensued, and I admit I missed the first post that snowballed the whole thing.  I apologize for that. I even went back and fixed the quote in it to reflect what you responded to.

It's not that I don't want to understand your point, its that its not clear to me and I'm sorry for that.  Best of luck to you.

Thanks

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