kst8catfan

In over my head, but gotta make it work...need ideas.

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We were awarded a huge job at a new building on our campus.  Most of the stuff we bid on was normal, everyday stuff for our little 2-person shop...just a ton of it to do.  The architects keep adding and changing things though and I've got a task that I need help in making happen.

We're "frosting" 38 glass office walls using 3m vinyl.  We know how to do it...there's just so much to do in a little amount of time.  One of these offices has a poorly placed column, right in the center of the glass wall, with about 2" of space in which to apply the vinyl.  My hands are WAY too fat to fit in this area, obviously.  I suggested applying the vinyl to the outside of this one office, but the architects, in their infinite wisdom, said they'd have the glass company remove the glass wall for us to do our vinyl work, then reinstall.  If they want to go to that expense, more power to them. All that being said, here's my project.

The architects want to disguise this column from view by using a combination of "frost" and graphics.  Attached is a drawing of their design.

OPUSDESIGN.jpg?t=1261502749

The part I'm struggling with is the text.  The longest black stripe measures 6" wide by 5' tall.  By placing the purple and black stripes on the inside of the glass, won't the text look funny if I just sandwich it in between the black stripes and the glass?  I'm thinking it will leave air pockets at the edges of the text vinyl.

Any ideas?  Should I be layering this or is there some other solution?

Thanks in advance.

Kris

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Yes, if you layer the text on the inside of a large piece, there will be air channels around all the letters.  When sun shines on the window, the air pockets will expand, then contract in the shade.  This will constantly be stretching the vinyl and I could see it cracking before too long.

Having said that, I'm not sure how obvious it would be to someone looking at it from a few feet away.

Can you put the black and purple on the inside of the window and the white text on the outside?  This would give you some added depth to the look as well.

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There will be air bubbles around the text if you do it on the inside.

I would not do vinyl on the inside since the vinyl is UV resistant, not the adhesive which will look dull anyway from the outside  :thumbsup:

I'd layer everything on the outside with some good ol' Rapid Tac 2 (for cold and glass applications)

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This would have been better to do with printing. Your title says it all, In over your head. I would look to maybe contract something to print these out for you and you install. You'll still make money and the end result will be a lot better.

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That's kind of what I was thinking, having them printed then I'd apply them and piece in the frost around them.  Wasn't really sure if they could be printed that way, though.

I should clarify a little...these are all interior walls we're doing...nothing exposed to sunlight or outside temps.

Can these be printed so I can apply them to the inside of the glass and view normally from the hallway?

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You may wanna go over to signs101 and see what "pros" are doing for a situation like this. But I must warn you, register and search search search. They eat up people just posting up for help. They eat people up.

I'm there there is a way to do. There may be a way to print the design, and use an adhesive to fit the image to the inside so that you can view it without damaging the product or image printed.

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Guest debogus

Why not make it on aluminum sheet then stick to the inside of the glass with silcon dots ?

(Just the black and text)

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Because if you read the OP they are using "frost" to be able to still see through the windows, aluminum would defeat this.

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Here is an alternative. You could have it printed on clear vinyl in reverse so the image shows up when applied. Just make sure when it's printed cause clear vinyl tends to mute the color a bit. You can do it this way and even add a white overlaminate to it as well for a backing. Or, print on white vinyl and use Neschen Gudy Window Low Tack Adhesive to put on the image and it will hold it.

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Why not layer it all? Put frost down, black over, purple and white over black.

Unless I read it wrong. That is always possible! LOL  :thumbsup:

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tek, your gonna want to layer the letter first, then the purple, then the black, then the frost, and this will create major air pockets between each layer where they meet.

kst, just thought of another one, print on window cling material. Should work. If you apply wet the water will act as a better bond with the window too.

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Okay, best way I have found, asked a friend and he says to Print on a Clear SAV and laminate with a white vinyl for opacity. He said also make sure the vinyl does not use a water based adhesive or it will cloud up. He said window cling on that large of a window won't work that well.

So hope this helps. lol I've tried.

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Thanks for all your replies.... I'm going to check into the printed things.  I been experimenting in my office, on the window in my door.  The layering thing really doesn't look too bad with the exception of the stupid air bubbles under the black.  I put some white letters directly on the glass...then laid a scrap of black over the top.  I was able to work the air out from around the letters so it doesn't look too bad at all....it's just going to be such a large area that I'd like to apply this wet to make sure I don't get any air in the open parts of the black and purple.

Mader... I signed up over at signs101 several months ago after learning about them from this site.  I don't think I've actually written anything over there out of fear of getting eaten alive by several primadonnas.  I do lurk and search and read a lot on there, but it kills me when you go to the "newbie" section.  Someone will ask some very basic questions only to be bombarded by "professionals" telling them to go learn it on your own and come back when you have some experience. The "professionals", it seems, want newbies to pay for the privilege getting their advice.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that's why I like this site.  I don't know alot about the sign industry, although I've been working in it in one form or another for close to 20 years.  I still have LOTS of basic type questions.  I'm glad that the people here, in general, are willing to spread their knowledge they've gained from years of hard work.  I do it all the time when people ask me about the things I'm self-taught on, like laser & rotary engraving, CorelDraw, Photoshop, etc.  These were things that were thrown at me and I was expected to be able to be professional from day one.  No one is going to make me miss a Harley payment just because I gave away a little free advice...I never feel anyone is taking a sale away from me.

Once again, I appreciate all the responses I got here (keep the ides coming please)....true professionals are willing to share ideas.

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This place is def alot warmer when people ask questions thats for sure. I get some crap cause people think my attitude is a little harsh haha. I don't mean it to come off that way at all.

I'm hear to help as much as I can.

Heres the thing though with you applying it to the window. Yes it does have some air in it and when you work it out it looks great. But leave it, for say 24-48 hours and come back. That air will work it's way right back in and the client will call griping. Best to do it the right way first so that you know when you walk out that door, your company name is not in jeopardy and that the client and architects are happy. You don't want to question it walking out, "Well i hope it sticks"

I'd really print on the clear vinyl and overlaminate on white vinyl to insure a long lasting design. You shouldn't have a problem installing it wet just so you make sure it doesn't have a waterbased adhesive.

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I agree.  I'll attempt to find someone in the area that does this type of printing.  I think that'll be the safest way to get this job done.

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Just a thought, but could you cut the letters in the black (mirror them) .... weed the letters .... then laminate a layer of white to the whole thing ?

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It's still going to create air bubbles. They have to have a layer of front, layer of purple, layer of white, layer of black. These are just too many layers a project like this. It will create air. The only real solution is to print.

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Just a thought, but could you cut the letters in the black (mirror them) .... weed the letters .... then laminate a layer of white to the whole thing ?

Just worried about air bubbles, but good idea.

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If it's an interior installation, you can more than likely work out the air gaps around the layered letters with a few well-placed air holes, but it could be tedious.

For the record, this all has to be applied to the inside of the glass, no option of application on the outside, correct?

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Correct....the architects have it spec'd out that way and won't change their minds....believe me, I tried.  And I'm not going to risk losing the rest of the job because of this one problem...it means thousands in profits for our little shop.

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Ohhhh... that is where I misunderstood. I thought it could be applied to the out/front side.

My mistake.  :-

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Contact James605 on here, he's local to me and I work with him for projects all the time. He's able to print up to 54" wide, which will allow you to print in sheets, you would then piece them together for a seamless look.

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Wow, looks like a big project.  Getting it printed looks like to be the best solution when you're doing something like this.  Layering it could get tedious when trying to squeegee the thing out.  Maybe someone with a solvent printer or something similiar can help.

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