How much in profits is reasonable ?

[jibr 0]

I have so many questions being new to this business, I am grateful for all you who are experienced and know when to say now of stick to you guns and say this is my final offer. If I pay say $3 for a shirt and it costs me approximately $1-$2 for each transfer or vinyl art piece what would be a fair amount of money to ask for a t-shirt if one is being purchased, 100, 500 or even say 1000 shirts because this is a possibility.

If our costs round out to about $5-$6 dollars and we charge say $15/$20 for one T-shirt what would or should I be charging for the amounts I posted at a wholesale price?

Thank you

Brenda

[BannerJohn 1,324]

ON large orders, a screen printer will outbid you every time. My brother gets his shirts for his bar at $7 each with $100 or more order. And you can't beat that because with vinyl, it's a LOT more labor intensive.And your supply costs are more.

[jibr 0]

How can anyone make a profit from charging $7 for a t-shirt? Where is this person getting his t-shirts from so cheap that he makes a profit charging only $7. Or he isn't making a profit, he's making relations for future business? Please explain because if there is a way to get shirts for 50 cents or a 1.00 then tell me.

If not, I am no understanding when my cost is $5 min.

Thank you,

Ps the only overhead is my partner and myself. At present we have no employees therefore our time is free.

The cost is the vinyl, or ink and transfer sheets and t-shirts. about $5 as I said.

[tattoo.dan 0]

Can compete with screen printers, that's why I just bought my own equipment. Big orders $6 or $7 or less per shirt is common. You have almost that much is materials before even doing the work.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

How can anyone make a profit from charging $7 for a t-shirt? Where is this person getting his t-shirts from so cheap that he makes a profit charging only $7. Or he isn't making a profit, he's making relations for future business? Please explain because if there is a way to get shirts for 50 cents or a 1.00 then tell me.

If not, I am no understanding when my cost is $5 min.

Thank you,

Ps the only overhead is my partner and myself. At present we have no employees therefore our time is free.

The cost is the vinyl, or ink and transfer sheets and t-shirts. about $5 as I said.

No idea but apparently they do. It's a very large outfit that does a big business in athletic wear.

You can buy t-shirts for a lot less than $3. Here is a link to Hanes t-shirts for only $1.69 each if you buy 36 or more:

http://blankshirts.com/details.asp?style=5170&uid=WEKIYQ7WRPE8SXDU40105.6751041667r

and here's one for Hanes 100% cotton for $1.57 for 36 or more:

http://blankshirts.com/details.asp?style=5280&uid=WEKIYQ7WRPE8SXDU40105.6751041667r

It took me about a minute to find it...I could probably find even better deals if I took more time.

[FBRsportmod68 109]

screeners can charge that because they do VOLUME.......lets say a 500 shirt order.......one color on back

2.00 per shirt = $1000

ink (im guessing) $200

screen ??            $50

8 hr labor @ $45  $360

          Total      $1610...COST

Sell for $7 each = $3500

                     

[sarconastic 29]

You can make a profit selling shirts for 6-7 dollars, though a very slim one. The key is quantity when you buy stuff. Most of us are buying 20 shirts and a roll of heat press to do shirts a few at a time. By the time you figure shipping from two suppliers and the lack of a qty discount, you can't make much at that price. But, when you build up and order qty, you can get your shirt price down around $2- 2.25 and then $1-2 per shirt in vinyl depending on the size. So on the high side your out $4.25 per shirt in materials. If your fast you should knock out 20-25 shirts in around an hour to an hour and a half, cut, weed and pressed. This of course depends on complexity of the design. but I have done it on several orders.

So 25 shirts @ $7 ea  =    $175

    Materials @ $4.25ea = $106.25

____________________________

                   Total Profit  $68.75

So even on the high side of say 2 hours to do them your making about $35 an hour. When you might not be making anything. Your not making any mark up on your materials but at least your making money.And it doesn't take into account Electricity to run the press and cutter.

Realistically, I don't go as low as $7 a shirt unless I have at least 50 shirts for an order. I have done 25 for $8.50 each. Single color.

Just my perspective on it. And By the way, I am dong this in my home, I don't have the huge overhead many shops have right now. So you have to take that into account on that end of things.

Kevin

[RPM Graphics 6]

I do alot of t's for motocross racers.  My deal is this.....$15 for short sleeve, $20 for long sleeve, 2 color print, usually name and number on the back and something on the front.  Only one person questioned it and I told them to go to the local screen printer and see if he can match that price for a ONE OFF custom shirt,  not gonna happen.  They aren't really paying for the shirt, they are paying for the time it takes me to do it.  If I do a single color print on the front only, then I do them for $10 and $15, again, nobody has questioned, they just want to know when I can have them ready.

[jibr 0]

Wow! Thank you for the responses. OK so this guy wants a small 2x2 art work on the inside of the back of the shirt, an 8x8 size art work on the front that goes from one nipple to the other in width and the last piece of art is at the RH bottom of the hip. So in all This guy wants three pieces of artwork on American Apparel shirts and says he can get these for $8-9 each and if he was to go with Gildan shirts he can get them for about $5 with all that artwork with up to 2-4 colors and he has not specified exactly how many shirts he wants so I cannot base this on he is buying for sure 100-500 or 1000 shirts so this is our concern.

We are trying to be fair but this seems a lot of work for nothing. I do see where someone suggested charging fees for all the specifics then give them the t-shirts for practically no profit?

When you say screen print are you speaking of silk screen?

Thanks again,

Brenda

[FBRsportmod68 109]

i would tell him to produce a reciept where he got them at that price the way he wants them done. If he produces one, tell him to go back to them because I dont work for free.

[midwaste 4]

If he is ordering 1000, I have no doubt that he can get the shirts screened at that price.  Yes, screenprint is the same thing as silkscreen.  I would question it at a qty of 100.

Silkscreening is pretty cheap in terms of supplies, with the exception of the blank shirts. 

It depends on the size of the print, but an average sized back print, you could do hundreds with about $20 in ink.  The setup is the majority of the time, which is why most printers charge a setup fee.  Once you get printing, you can crank out many shirts per hour, especially if you have a 1000 print order, when it is definitely worth setting up an automatic machine.  Most places would do anything over 200 on an auto.

Otherwise, the labor can be fairly intensive, depending on how fast you want to move.

You may want to look at plastisol transfers, especially for the inside tags.  The quantity discounts are good once you get up over 100 sheets or so.

I recently did a 300 shirt order with plastisol transfers for 5.50 each (semi-charitable price, also got sponsorship), but I made pretty decent money.

No offense to anyone, but I cannot imagine why someone would even consider doing 100+ shirts with heatpress vinyl.  The labor time is probably 3-4 times screenprinting, maybe more.

[jibr 0]

thanks everyone I will share this with my partner......

[FBRsportmod68 109]

screeners can charge that because they do VOLUME.......lets say a 500 shirt order.......one color on back

2.00 per shirt = $1000

ink (im guessing) $200

screen ??            $50

8 hr labor @ $45  $360

          Total       $1610...COST

Sell for $7 each = $3500

                       

At the first of the year, I'm going to get set up for a single station screen... too much $$$ is getting passed up without it.

im thinking the same thing

[midwaste 4]

I recommend you guys do set up for screening, however, do your homework first.  It's not at all like vinyl, which, IMO, is easy.  There is very little learning curve other than graphics on vinyl, especially RTA.  Screenprinting is another animal.

However, with a little research, you can get started for less than $1K, depending on your ingenuity and skills at building.

Get very acquainted with http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/.  Virtually any question you have, the answer is there.

[userjon 1]

If he is ordering 1000, I have no doubt that he can get the shirts screened at that price.  Yes, screenprint is the same thing as silkscreen.  I would question it at a qty of 100.

Silkscreening is pretty cheap in terms of supplies, with the exception of the blank shirts. 

It depends on the size of the print, but an average sized back print, you could do hundreds with about $20 in ink.  The setup is the majority of the time, which is why most printers charge a setup fee.   Once you get printing, you can crank out many shirts per hour, especially if you have a 1000 print order, when it is definitely worth setting up an automatic machine.  Most places would do anything over 200 on an auto.

Otherwise, the labor can be fairly intensive, depending on how fast you want to move.

You may want to look at plastisol transfers, especially for the inside tags.  The quantity discounts are good once you get up over 100 sheets or so.

I recently did a 300 shirt order with plastisol transfers for 5.50 each (semi-charitable price, also got sponsorship), but I made pretty decent money.

No offense to anyone, but I cannot imagine why someone would even consider doing 100+ shirts with heatpress vinyl.  The labor time is probably 3-4 times screenprinting, maybe more.

I'm a screen printer that went into the whole vinyl thing.  When I get a big order like that, I got in good with a local screen printer and now I sub out all screen printing.  If they know your in the business too and just don't want to deal with it, they'll lower there prices so you can make a little profit off it, and the best thing is, you don't even have to touch the product.

[hockeygirl 30]

We do a lot of smaller order screenprintings (anything over 100 shirts, we outsource). T-shirt costs about $1.70 each wholesale and we typically charge a $25 screen fee. But all material costs to do per shirt is under $2. We charge $12 per shirt for single color and each additional color would cost them an extra $25 screen fee + $3 per shirt. We found it to be a lot more efficient and profitable than doing vinyl for T-shirts (ink is cheap)!

So, if we're doing an order of 50 shirts, that's $12x50+$25=$625. Our cost (assuming we already have the screen, if not, that's $15 for the screen): $2x50=$100. Being super conservative, it takes maybe 2 hours including setup time to do the job, labor cost: $45/hr x 2 = $90. Profit = $625-$100-$90-$15(screen) = $420 for 50 single color shirts.

Of course, higher quality shirts costs more... this price is for Guidan Ultra Cotton T-shirt. So, even if we do it at $7 per shirt, we're still looking at $145 pure profit (and it really doesn't take 2 hours to do them). BTW, the prices you can charge also depends on your location as well. We operate out of California, living expenses are high and we're able to charge more if they want the shirts printed locally instead of online.

[bayshorecreations 30]

As much as you can possibly get!

[T-SHIRT.CC 0]

Profits are relative to processing speed in screen printing.  A small shop will process a small amount of frames and take a lot of time doing it, a bigger shop will be setup with space to process frames fast.  I do two at a time in groups of six.  Depending on if I use 75 cents of chemicals or $1 on the six frames, they will be done and ready to dry and coat in 30 minutes or 5 minutes each. 

True, you can make it take 3 hours, but it isn't worth anymore because it took that long.

It takes time to dry, but you really can't charge that, you just put them in a room and dry them and go do something else.

Saying I have the art ready, I can output it on my Xante 13 x 18 laser for 45 cents on a nice dimensionally stable vellum I use for full color process in about 2 minutes.

I can setup, coat 10 (6) frames and clean up in 15 minutes or 3 minutes for a frame with about 1oz (50 cents) of pure polymer emulsion -expensive for emulsion, but a real time saver to expose.

Up until now I have 10 minutes in the frame and $2.95 into the frame.

It drys - no labor there

I line up the frame with centermarks on a light table and expose it for two minutes to 3,000 watts of uv - I always do two at a time.  Lineup and exposure for one frame 1.5 minutes.

Washout/develop 2 frames, wet it down and walk away and come back in a few minutes.  Total time washout/develop for two frames 3 minutes if you walk away and come back, but yes you can turn it into 10 minutes if you have time to spare.  Usually in a big shop you are exposing your next set of frames.

Squeege them off, total time to this point 14 minutes and $2.95 in materials.

Labor cost at this point with an $8 an hour employee is $2.50 with taxes.

One minute to tape the frame, and 1 minute to block.-Total 2

For 1 color, l can line it up and get a test print out in 5 minutes on a manual and 7 minutes on my auto.

Total time (Screen) 21 minutes with a cost of $2.95 in materials

Print time on an auto with one person running the whole thing on 100 is 25 minutes running slow.  On a manual with one person, speed table on the printer of course, 50 minutes.

Stack and fold has always been 10 a minute in my shop, so we have 10 minutes if no spotting.

Using the auto, 23 + 25 + 10

58 minutes

$2.95 frame, $3 ink(light color shirt) $5.95

Gildan 6 oz color shirt, $1.85-$2.05 with free shipping to me $205 + $5.95 = $210.95 job cost

Add another 2 minutes clean up and that is 1 hr in a production shop.

Sell the 100 for $4.99 each and you made $280 in an hour - sure there is more involved, but this is already a long post.

That is production screening.

Don't have the right equipment to process fast, do just one frame at a time, and everything changes. 

Answer the phone 4 times, have two people come in an yak about their prospective job and you will be lucky to do an hours work in a day.

A production shop has dedicated people dedicate to specific jobs with excellent equipment.

A really big shop may go through a 1,000 frames a day.

At a seminar in the 90's I asked Richard Greaves to give me some profit numbers on his automatic.  He said he ran a six man crew (not minimum wage) and he expected $3,500 and hour gross profit off of the machine.  In my head, I figured a six hour production day, industry standard, $21,000 a day off of the machine if no problems, while I was figuring that out, he said I have 4 machines I run on 3 shifts.

My head almost exploded, was he padding his numbers, maybe, but even 4 machines on one shift is impressive.

My point is forget everyone else, if everyone is selling shirts, sell shirts, 2 signs, and two other things.  If you have a customer that says they can get 100 shirts for $3 each, say great if you can get a vector copy of the art we can do some really great signs and stickers that will really help you with the launch(reason) for this order.

Look at what you can do with your equipment and sell that.

I don't answer the phone and yak with customers, you do.  If your customer ads wants a lots of attention, and yaks a lot you have to charge for personal attention.

Correspondence with my customers is written, he said she said doesn't come into it - customers remember what suits them

If you loose a shirt job to a guy like me, sell them something else, do they have volunteers, staff ext.  take the print of the competitor and decorate it with names ect.

When I originally started printing for local screen, sign and ad specialty guys in my area that lacked my skill, I was printing on a wood printer with door hinges and clamps (printing up to 3 color), curing with a Hix 1620 Swingster heat press over a wood platen.

Screen printing is a simple process that can be complex if you expectations get out of line with you equipment.

Here is the book I started with in 1980, simple understanding

With 30 years experience, for those wanting to get into screen printing without spending a lot of money in the wrong direction

buy this book

http://www.amazon.com/How-Print-T-Shirts-Fun-Profit/dp/0963947419

If you buy a press, hold out from one with side arm clamps, and micro registration if some day you want to do full color process, or tight registration

If you want to buy a press that you will never want to replace, buy one with the above and a speed table (rotating platens for flash curing), 6 is best, 4 is great(what I have) two will get you by.

Personally, I think that paying $500 for a press with micro, is to high, acceptable with side arm clamps, but not a press you should keep.

Focus less on your competition and more on your customer

Forgive me, I am old and passionate about what I love to do.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

Thanks for the excellent advice! It's nice to hear the voice of experience talking.

[NukleoN 34]

I like reading from those who have experience too...lots to learn. While I've been doing art professionally for over 20 years, I am still somewhat new to vinyl (though I am pretty good at cutting/weeding now).

That said, I think the profit should be enough to make it worth your while, but not so much you lose the job or so little that you undercut and drive down prices or work for nearly nothing. Believe me I have learned some of these lessons in my limited exerience taking vinyl jobs that were too big and too complex...whittling me down to nearly 6 bucks an hour if you average it. That's better than no money...almost, except it takes all yer time and when yer weeding hundreds of complex designs it's hard to do anything else.

Vinyl is tricky....because if you price it wrong you're in for a long haul. The good thing is, you can always punt and get your stuff printed in color if ye sub it out.

But yeah...reasonable prices are good as long as the job is worth it. That can vary by the job itself, the client (how easy they are to deal with) and whether it would be worth more to be doing something else.