Received my 3rd cutter and still problems

[prestonservco 26]

As long as you guys are losing cutters, send one my way. 

[BannerJohn 1,324]

levi is busting his butt for you,I hope everything works out OK.

[mikerob2334 2]

As long as you guys are losing cutters, send one my way.   

2nd that

[tekcorps 50]

I'll take one to try too!  ;D

Mader, that was not what I meant. No matter no matter, I would suggest a different cutter.

I don't know your situation, I don't know how you plan on using this, I don't know how much you have to spend on equipment, nor do I care.

But, both you and USCutter need to see a end. A happy customer hopefully.

[prestonservco 26]

USCutter - Have you guys looked into which "higher end" machine has the best shielding for the money?  I wouldn't want to see you guys expecting Mader to guess.

[MaderDesign 3]

levi is busting his butt for you,I hope everything works out OK.

I never said he wasn't, him and Brandon know how patient I have been with them, I do not call them yelling or screaming like an idiot, nor do I expect them to ship me another cutter of greater value. I've talked to them on the phone plenty of times. I have been nothing but understanding with this thing. It's almost like your beginning to think i'm making a big fit and crying that Levi isn't doing his job. I know he is doing his job, never said he wasn't EVER. Him and I have spoke numerous times about this, we're just trying to get this fixed. I'm not mad, never have been yet. Stuff happens. Guess i'm the one who it had to happen to.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

never intended that towards you..just pointing out to everyone how hard he is working to get this resolved.

[MaderDesign 3]

Its so hard to know whats intended on the internet, i get that from people all the time. Take it the wrong way but inmy head i said it one way and they heard it another.

It's all good, didn't want people to think i'm griping about it.

[Rodger 527]

    Mader ,

Reading the thread , you have never came across negative towards anything or anybody  . You just want to find out why there has been no cutter ( YET ) that has been able to cut all straight lines in your house . . I think you have been the utmost in patience , maturity & understanding business . I admire your demeanor !!! 

  Levi said in 1 post he thought a Co-Pam would fair better . That cutter is affordable & in your range . I suggest talking with USC about getting 1 of those ( I bought 2 ) & agreeing before buying/shipping , what the shipping expense would be IF it does the same thing . I think the Co-Pam fits your needs description VERY well .

[Booper 2]

Ok im gonna take a stab at a guess and lets see if a few months down the road if im proved right. I think (and this is entirely my opinion) that given this is an entry to mid low level machine that obviously we're not dealing with the highest end in components or shielding. These cutters have mid to low grade servo motors to control the X and Y axis movements of the blades, and when you are cutting an angle both servo's are working in unison to perform that cut. I just read this on a site that talks about using servo's to build robots;

Efficiency and Noise

Due to noise and control circuitry requirements, servos are less efficient than DC motors uncontrolled. To begin with, the control circuitry typically drains 5-8mA just on idle. Secondly, noise can more than triple current draw during a holding position (not moving), and almost double current during rotation.

Noise is often a major source of servo inefficiency and therefore should be avoided. Ever notice your servo jitter or vibrate? This is because your servo is rapidly jumping between two different angles due to interference. What causes this interference? Well the signal wire is no different than a long antennae, capable of accepting unwanted foreign signals and sending them straight to your servo as a command. A common interference source is usually from other nearby servos and/or servo wiring. How to prevent this problem? Keep your signal wire short, meaning do not add say 3+ feet of extension cables to your servo. If you have many servo wires going through one area, and it isn't feasible to keep them apart, then twist them together. Supposedly this reduces cross interference and I've heard it works, although I cannot really tell for sure myself. You can also buy something called a servo booster extension which buffers and amplifies the signal.

Given the level of NOISE these cutters generate, my guess is that the servo's are of a quality relative to their cost, and as such are MORE succeptible to being affected by outside interference. You house for whatever reason is being affected by higher levels of interference than the machine is capable of resisting and as such when both motors are active cutting an angle they interfere with each other and create the jagged line. Your house is brand new yes? In new home construction dont they tend to use alot more metal nowadays like metal studs for walls and I beams for flooring joists??

Like I said, just a guess, im betting a higher end machine with better motors and shielding will solve the problem.

Ben

[lueman 19]

I guess I was wrong I do have something to say. The last few posts imply adding a Faraday Shield would reduce if not solve the problem - Gee, I wish we has a tech mention that in his earlier posts! Oh, Yeah, I Did, Oh yeah,Oh, Oh, Oh yeah, Wooosh there it is!

Seriously, Mader if I could lend you my machine I would, How you fix it soon.

[Rodger 527]

Lueman , I enjoyed the funny 

[midwaste 4]

Ok im gonna take a stab at a guess and lets see if a few months down the road if im proved right. I think (and this is entirely my opinion) that given this is an entry to mid low level machine that obviously we're not dealing with the highest end in components or shielding. These cutters have mid to low grade servo motors to control the X and Y axis movements of the blades, and when you are cutting an angle both servo's are working in unison to perform that cut. I just read this on a site that talks about using servo's to build robots;

Efficiency and Noise

Due to noise and control circuitry requirements, servos are less efficient than DC motors uncontrolled. To begin with, the control circuitry typically drains 5-8mA just on idle. Secondly, noise can more than triple current draw during a holding position (not moving), and almost double current during rotation.

Noise is often a major source of servo inefficiency and therefore should be avoided. Ever notice your servo jitter or vibrate? This is because your servo is rapidly jumping between two different angles due to interference. What causes this interference? Well the signal wire is no different than a long antennae, capable of accepting unwanted foreign signals and sending them straight to your servo as a command. A common interference source is usually from other nearby servos and/or servo wiring. How to prevent this problem? Keep your signal wire short, meaning do not add say 3+ feet of extension cables to your servo. If you have many servo wires going through one area, and it isn't feasible to keep them apart, then twist them together. Supposedly this reduces cross interference and I've heard it works, although I cannot really tell for sure myself. You can also buy something called a servo booster extension which buffers and amplifies the signal.

Given the level of NOISE these cutters generate, my guess is that the servo's are of a quality relative to their cost, and as such are MORE succeptible to being affected by outside interference. You house for whatever reason is being affected by higher levels of interference than the machine is capable of resisting and as such when both motors are active cutting an angle they interfere with each other and create the jagged line. Your house is brand new yes? In new home construction dont they tend to use alot more metal nowadays like metal studs for walls and I beams for flooring joists??

Like I said, just a guess, im betting a higher end machine with better motors and shielding will solve the problem.

Ben

To my knowledge, all USCutter products have servos, rather than stepper motors, except for possibly the Copams.  I wonder if the motor wires are twisted pairs, this could help if they arent.

Levi/Brandon, do the servo motors use twisted pair wiring?

We caught that, however, I don't think that building a Faraday cage around his cutter is going to be an acceptable resolution.  It may serve to prove that interference is the culprit, however, at this point, that is almost certain.

I guess I was wrong I do have something to say. The last few posts imply adding a Faraday Shield would reduce if not solve the problem - Gee, I wish we has a tech mention that in his earlier posts! Oh, Yeah, I Did, Oh yeah,Oh, Oh, Oh yeah, Wooosh there it is!

Seriously, Mader if I could lend you my machine I would, How you fix it soon.

[lueman 19]

Don't re-invent the wheel a simple aluminum tape with sticky back and a ground wire will work, just apply the tape to the inside plastic housing, total cost maybe $.50. But don't get me wrong. I believed and still believe it's a simple matter of adding some lubrication to the blade. The jagged lines only occur on the pull stroke as the blade turns up towards the cutter ( the upper right diagonals of both his test cuts & the graphic he posted). Again I had similar problems when I first got my LP24. The problem is I was shot down by the other posters so we all went on different tangents to find other possible problems. I still haven't heard from Mader or if he added the oil or not. As to servo problems, most controller boards  have decent Capacitors that even out any servo problems it would be enormous bad luck to get three machine with funky caps, though not completely unheard of, I really can't imagine a scenario where a tech would fix three boards and not replace his caps! All I know is I've been a tech for over 20 years and The simplest solution is always the best solution!

[mikerob2334 2]

Don't re-invent the wheel a simple aluminum tape with sticky back and a ground wire will work, just apply the tape to the inside plastic housing, total cost maybe $.50. But don't get me wrong. I believed and still believe it's a simple matter of adding some lubrication to the blade. The jagged lines only occur on the pull stroke as the blade turns up towards the cutter ( the upper right diagonals of both his test cuts & the graphic he posted). Again I had similar problems when I first got my LP24. The problem is I was shot down by the other posters so we all went on different tangents to find other possible problems. I still haven't heard from Mader or if he added the oil or not. As to servo problems, most controller boards  have decent Capacitors that even out any servo problems it would be enormous bad luck to get three machine with funky caps, though not completely unheard of, I really can't imagine a scenario where a tech would fix three boards and not replace his caps! All I know is I've been a tech for over 20 years and The simplest solution is always the best solution!

the reason the lubrication idea was shot down was due to the fact that the plotter(pen) is doing the same thing. IF it was only the blade doing it, I would be right there with ya

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

And the one Preston sent worked great before and after shipping - Lube doesn't look like the problem

[midwaste 4]

the reason the lubrication idea was shot down was due to the fact that the plotter(pen) is doing the same thing. IF it was only the blade doing it, I would be right there with ya

Exactly.

However, the fact that it only does it on diagonals (at least that is the only case that is visible) would indicate that it could be interference between the motor signals, perhaps the motor wires are tied together for a certain length internally and not twisted.

[mikerob2334 2]

I'm still curious if Mader tried changing the espeed setting. I have a 721 and was able to make it cut jagged like that by changing the espeed setting in setup. Still don't have a clue what it's for. Did a search on here and found where others had asked what it was and ken told them he didn't know.

[Renegade 2]

I've been watching and waiting to see where this thread would end, but I think its clear at this point that more than likely there is an environmental problem of some kind at your location.  At this point I would think you have spent enough time and effort on this to be confident that you have exhausted making one of these models function reliably there.  You've already spent a good amount on shipping, uninterruptable power supply, etc. that probably could have got you nearly to the cost of an upgraded cutter.  I totally understand where you are coming from on not wanting to over spend on a cutter until you are sure of its potential return on investment.  I purchased a Laserpoint 24 and had problems with it that we couldn't overcome with phone support.  So, I returned it and upgraded to the Graphtec.  It easily paid for itself in a very short amount of time even with my inexperience with graphics and only using it for part time side projects.  Its reliability and superior performance made it something I would have never regretted purchasing even if the payoff hadn't come along so quickly.  Like most well made tools, its easy to know when a purchase was money well spent.  With your skills, I would say that as long as you are willing to put out the effort, purchasing a higher end model is something you won't ever look back at.  If you get a Graphtec and still have problems, then you'll know for sure your cutter isn't a problem and I'm sure you could always return it if the problem continues and you choose not to make whatever changes might be necessary to your location.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

"To my knowledge, all USCutter products have servos, rather than stepper motors, except for possibly the Copams.  I wonder if the motor wires are twisted pairs, this could help if they arent."

From the listings:

Brand USCutter

Model MH-871

Motor Type Stepper

Brand USCutter

Model Laserpoint 24NOS

Motor Type Stepper Motor

Brand Creation

Model 630ST

Motor Type Stepper motor

Brand Copam

Model CP-2500

Motor Type Stepper

[NukleoN 34]

There is no reason for anyone here to be getting on Mader's case. He deserves a cutter which cuts *straight* lines, not jaggy lines, and any of us would want the same thing. I am sure U.S. Cutter agrees with this sentiment.

This thread has been useful in staying focused on the issues and having several minds chiming in...many of us are thinking the same thing...another cutter with better parts might work better with regard to shielding and such. Short of moving, Mader is kinda stuck in his environment...he's forced into an unfortunate scenario of having no cutter, dealing with wavy lines or seeing the testing process through to its conclusion.

U.S. Cutter seems to be doing due diligence to fix the issue, but at this point Mader really needs to try a new model cutter...maybe another budget cutter such as the LP-24 or LP36, or maybe the Copam. If it were me I'd be all about the Copam, seeing as how it's sufficiently higher-end but not prohibitively expensive.

I'd say the first step is seeing if *any* cutter will work in Mader's environment, and then figure out which is the cheapest to buy once one is found which cuts properly in the troublesome environment.

Once the issue is known I could see how this information would be useful for U.S. Cutter with regard to future manufacture or things to watch out for.

[MaderDesign 3]

Here's my thing, I really don't want to send back the 871 and purchase a higher priced machine and have it perform the same jagged cuts as my previous cutters, then I'm out even more shipping for a different cutter that is doing the same thing but for a much higher cost. See where I'm coming from?

That's why I'm asking anyone who could possibly bring their cutter, or USC to send me a LaserPoint, Copam or something that they feel would be better. If we test the Copam and it cuts perfect then I would love to purchase it and use it.

It's been 7 weeks since I received my cutter, and tried everything, last thing I feel there is to do would be testing an upgraded cutter.

[mr300s 1,272]

If we test the Copam and it cuts perfect then I would love to purchase it

If I was US Cutters I would be all over this.  US cutter loses hundreds of dollars every week if not every day with their $9.99 shipping anyway?  So what is the big deal you package up a new copam ship it to the man with the understanding it works you will be able to purchase it.  It doesn't work we will send you a return ship tag so this last attempt doesn't cost you anything out of pocket.  What is fair is fair at this point. Then it will be over & done with as far as US Cutters is concerened, you tried your best.

I am sure this is one of the hottest posts this year and even after it is solved folks will be visiting this thread to see what action US cutters did to resolve this problem.

And if this doesn't work then I say oh well sorry time to take up golf or another line of business short of moving LOL.....

[MaderDesign 3]

Haha ^ Moving is def out we just finished the house and now just started building our new 36x32' garage. So i doubt the "Umm honey, can we move, my cutter doesn't work?" is gonna work. lol

[BannerJohn 1,324]

If we test the Copam and it cuts perfect then I would love to purchase it

If I was US Cutters I would be all over this.  US cutter loses hundreds of dollars every week if not every day with their $9.99 shipping anyway?  So what is the big deal you package up a new copam ship it to the man with the understanding it works you will be able to purchase it.  It doesn't work we will send you a return ship tag so this last attempt doesn't cost you anything out of pocket.  What is fair is fair at this point. Then it will be over & done with as far as US Cutters is concerened, you tried your best.

I am sure this is one of the hottest posts this year and even after it is solved folks will be visiting this thread to see what action US cutters did to resolve this problem.

And if this doesn't work then I say oh well sorry time to take up golf or another line of business short of moving LOL.....

I think the problem with this idea is that company policy seems to rule out trusting people. If you need a part under warranty, you have to pay for it, return the old part,and get a  refund...even if you provide a pic of a very obviously broken part.. I realize that there are people out there who will try and cheat..but they are in the minority.

A few years ago I had a power supply go bad on a computer (still under warranty). I called. I had a new power supply on my porch overnight..no questions asked.They told me to throw the old one away. They got a lifelong customer. Good business practic,IMHO.

Sometimes, you have to bend the rules in the name of Customer Relations...and good press. I hope Levi is able to convince the higher-ups of this.