static on vinyl causing problems -- fixed forever

[tinaski 11]

ok i have done allot of research and calling people and manufactures. on how to fix this problem. To put in a nut shell an ionizer will fix it and it does. wow!!!!!! the difference is huge.

first off during the day i am an industrial electrician and night i an a helper for my wifes business im an not an expert at all about static. it is electricity but it has different properties.

so i will try to do my best on how things work and why they do the crazy things that they do. the best i can

please feel free for anyone to correct me if i make an error

here is a web site of the basics of static

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/static.html

if you read that you would know that vinyl is an insulator it doesn't conduct electricity but the positive and neg electrons are still charging the vinyl roll

kinda like a capacitor it will build up a charge and then zap in most of our cases its the motherboard  

the static cant be wiped off -- cant be taken to ground (grounded out of the vinyl) its an insulator the electricity doesn't flow from left to right from top to bottom  where ever the charge was created it stays.

grounding the cutter is kinda a fix but not the real fix. i had a great web site what explained it but i cant find it now but this was there explanation

the vinyl is negative charged so it lacks positive charged ions  and since the cutter is conductive it will take the positive charge ions away from the vinyl. now it is positive charge and lacks neg. untill the cutter cant store any more pos charged ions they can only be stacked so high. at this point it is balanced the cutter is full the vinyl is full. if you get to this point you probably will already see problems. cutter stopping cross cutting ripping from top to bottom what ever your complaint is its is static. why its because the positive ions in a sence are stacked so high there falling over and crossing over circuitry. its jumping across diodes, resistors , processors  and more. i wish i had the excellent pictures but i don't.

but if you ground the cutter it will keep taking away positive charged ions till the vinyl is so neg charged it cant have anymore neg charge built up on it. that isnt a good thing either it does work foe most but still not 100% the right way.

talking to one guy who is an electronics guru was telling me the best way to protect was add components to the cutter and my thought i would rather eliminate the static.

well first easiest way is humidity--- about 60% will start to help and 65% will really start to eliminate the static. we tried that and ya right try to maintain humidity in a place not easy to do and it starts to get uncomfortable but there was a very big difference in cutting allot better.

the next way is to neutralize the ions if you have vinyl that is neg charge and a cutter is positive charge you get an ionizer and it will neutralize all the ions. i thought it was a joke so i took our air cleaner ionizer and it helped a little not allot. but we did see a difference

so i started to look for a new one a bigger one a better one

ok downside of an ionizer the cheapest one i found was $1000  and  it really goes up from there.

but i happen to work at an industrial place that was getting ride of allot of over head ionizers i got a bunch of them and o my the cutter has been going for an hr now and there is almost no  static on the vinyl  it doesnt cling to itself it doesnt crack and pop when its unrolled even after cutting very detailed pieces 6 feet long or more.

how i have it set up is rollers and the vinyl sitting on the table -- then the ionizer ---- then the cutter works great

the ionizer is 24 inches long with 2 blowers fits perfect and its made for over head but i have it upside down still no problems.

no more mother boards for me ---------  

im using one and i see a huge difference. i have allot more for backups don't think i will need them.

here is the web site of the one i have but mine is an older model http://www.esdsystems.com/ESDCatalog/Ionizers/Electronic/Overhead/OverheadElectronics/62250/

its about $1100 new these are older but great

if you have any other questions feel free to ask me i would like to help others solve there static problems. kennethsokolinski@comcast.net

my next project will be an auto feed. she uses alot of easy weed and the weight of it is too much for the cutter to pull off the roll.

so small motor, limit switches, and gearing should fix that problem.

and then next my big thing that she wants is to be able to cut in Linux. we would like to get rid of windows all together. i have worked on it a little before but i still would like to but thats down the road.

[Booper 2]

Well GARSH there fellar how much fer one of yer fancy schmancy static destroyers? And if I order now can I get the slap chop fer FREEE?? 

Ben

[lueman 19]

wouldn't it be easier to run a bear wire just ahead or behind the vinyl then ground the wire?  That way any static simply runs off as the vinyl feeds.

[tinaski 11]

that will not work. its an insulator. the static doesnt move, you cant wipe it off. just will not work.

o ya and at first thats what i thought so i got a fine copper screen mesh that we use for grounding high voltage and laid it across the vinyl and grounded it and nothing the static went right past it and it didn't help at all.

im not an expert i cant tell you the scientific way why it cant work. i thought it would be that easy but its not.

[lueman 19]

You have to find some way of putting everything at the same static potential. Try putting the vinyl & cutter on an anti-static mat. I did some EST training, Static will "move" from + >> - once there is enough potential or there wouldn't be any static. What you are referring to is the electrolytic properties of the vinyl, yes it is an insulator but current will still flow. The Plastic vinyl holder & vinyl together build up static and the cutter draws static from the vinyl, try having the plastic in contact with the cutter that way both the vinyl & cutter make up one unit.  Also check out this YouTube from MIT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzFQhsq8SF4

[tlzimmerman 11]

Regardless of all this....since I have grounded my cutter I have not had any problems whatsoever.....so to each their own I guessmy static seems to bleed right down out of the cutter since I grounded it good.

[Jay2703 704]

What is up with static? I have never (knock on wood) had an issue with it. My cutter is on synthetic carpet and humidity is near single digits where I live. How come I don't get any static when cutting vinyl? My dog on the other hand, when he rubs up against our microfiber furniture could power a small city but never had an issue with my cutter.

Jay

[tlzimmerman 11]

If you have a grounded outlet that can be alot of it....my outlets however are not properly grounded.

I donno...when I did long runs before grounding the static got bad fast...now it doesn't have any problems at all.

[lueman 19]

ANYHOO, glad you got the problem fixed

[tinaski 11]

i don't know why some people have problems and others don't. i have properly grounded outlets still had problems so i added more grounding still had problems and this fixed them.

we do notice the difference between different types of vinyl siser easy weed is a hug problem for us other vinyls are not that big of a problem.

[lueman 19]

I wasn't going to add to this thread since the problem cleared up, but I still think the problem has to do with the vinyl not having a static contact to the cutter . The plastic holder is an excellent static conductor and when the holder is in contact with both the vinyl & the cutter then they should both be at the same static potential. This is why I believe there is an intermittent problem sometimes the roller moves away from the cutter causing the static build up. Yes I know some people have the roller away from the printer but that doesn't mean I'm wrong they may touch the vinyl enough for static to not be a problem or the static in the area may not build due to temp-controller conditions. In any case I believe my gut, after all I've been a tech for 25 years and I'm not electrocuted yet!

[CyberChuck 4]

    I guess I'm lucky to live in the deep southeastern part of Louisiana. Our humidity is around 30% during a drought. Rest of the time (today) it's around 70 - 80%. My kids have never been zapped by a doorknob like I did as a child in North Texas.

    Then again, I work in the commercial construction field. With the humidity and temperature, today's heat index was 106.

Charlie