protecting artwork

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

Nuk posts in reply to John's post of not ever getting a trafic ticket in 39 years of driving " And of course, we all know that not getting tickets is no measure of your driving skill. My mom never gets tickets, and she's an awful driver with at least one failure-to-yield accident. I have zero at-fault car accidents in 26 years of driving cars. "

That is a bit personal & that is against forum rules Nuk If you had not used " your " & instead used " a person's " it would have been general , but still having the same jab type purpose . You then compare John to your Mom who you say is a " aweful driver " The accepted concept is that if a driver  does not get traffic tickets , that driver is a safer driver with better driver skills than drivers who get tickets ! Even if the driver that gets tickets has the driving skill of Richard Petty , they did not obey the laws that are enforcing safety .. so a non-ticketed driver winds up being safer than a highly skilled assgressive driver . The insurance industry uses that to determiine rates & most people would think a driver with no tickets at all in 39 years has better skills than someone with 39 tickets in 1 year ( opposite of John's record ) or many tickets in 39 years . . Assgressive drivers usually have many accidents in their rear-view . I have had my comercial driver's license for 37 years ... poor lane discipline results in a traffic blockage ( slow moving traffic jamb ) .. assgressive drivers swerving thru is what causes the accidents.. I have seen it MANY times .

I am just a member as you are here , but consider this another friendly warning from a fellow forum member , You are not missing many if any chances to jab at John .. that has NOT done well for anybody in the past . I don't think you are striving for the truth about anything as much as looking for a chance to take personal jabs at a couple people . It would be better for you & the members here to stop the negative stuff & continue with positive stuff .

Well said Rodger ???

[BannerJohn 1,324]

careful,Rodger...I see in the future lots of big words and terms that are so obscure that  we will all have to be Googling.

[Rodger 527]

John , I also noticed a trend with old threads being brought up & a tangent started that went into the same old specific direction . Seems the old threads were read in order to get ammo for the slurs or to start conflict . I pay attention to your demeanor & copied it giving the benifit of the doupt , but it seems the purpose is trolling type behavoir . I do think it would be a benifit to leave it alone & let the ruffled feather get back in place , but maybe slop , knob , dummydan & a few other " characters " need company  .

[BannerJohn 1,324]

John , I also noticed a trend with old threads being brought up & a tangent started that went into the same old specific direction . Seems the old threads were read in order to get ammo for the slurs or to start conflict . I pay attention to your demeanor & copied it giving the benifit of the doupt , but it seems the purpose is trolling type behavoir . I do think it would be a benifit to leave it alone & let the ruffled feather get back in place , but maybe slop , knob , dummydan & a few other " characters " need company  .

It's a need for attention..and maybe a little need to be heard...and nobody is listening. If a person is banned from ONE forum, it could be the forum..banned from TWO forums, a look in the mirror might show the reason...but some people never get it.

[mopar691 281]

It's a need for attention..and maybe a little need to be heard...and nobody is listening. If a person is banned from ONE forum, it could be the forum..banned from TWO forums, a look in the mirror might show the reason...but some people never get it.

This 

[NukleoN 34]

I figured you would have some long winded reply...as always.

I have had no tickets (or accidents) because I am careful, I am observant, and I obey the laws. It's that simple.

Getting tickets means one thing..you broke the law. It has nothing to do with driving skills.

And, unless you have been to Tennessee,and driven here for a considerable time,don't make ASSumptions. People in L.A. do not have a monopoly on stupid.

You're engaging in fallacious logic, which is why I wrote what I wrote. My premise is that not getting tickets doesn't mean you're a good driver, it just means you don't get tickets. You also cannot begin to compare sleepy Tennesse with the mean streats of L.A. I don't know if you've ever driven here, but I guarantee you it's much worse driving here, and the enforcement here is pretty aggressive...depending on the area. There is a reason I got caught in an ILLEGAL speed trap and beat that ticket, and forced them to raise the speed limit. The very *first* ticket I ever tried to fight wasn't even a legal ticket because it was based on an erroneous Engineering and Traffic survey. You assume all tickets are valid, but this would simply be false, otherwise why have a court system to fight them? Why would anyone ever beat a ticket if they weren't valid? Like most people, you simply don't understand how the traffic-ticket system works, or how speed laws are set.

The example about my mom is an anecdotal example of someone who doesn't get tickets but doesn't have the skills I would think a good driver should have. Not everyone's brain has exactly the same propensity for driving (or logic, for that matter).

The cops don't enforce all ticket laws equally. Some drivers are *too slow* for conditions but drivers who drive *too fast* tend to be targeted more. It's just a perception in America about speed and danger....but in Germany (as I already mentioned earlier), they drive *faster* on average and have *fewer accidents* per mile than Americans. You conveniently ignored that.

Like I said, lane discipline has a lot to do with how safe our roads are...it's far too simplistic to blame it all on sheer speeding. Of course, you and I have both have zero accidents. So, neither of us have caused accidents but your post infers that your not getting tickets makes you somehow a better driver putting more 'care' into your driving. I would say the driver with zero accidents in a city with actual traffic (L.A. County) is going to have far more skills in far more challenging situations than you may ever see in your life. Perhaps someone from Boston, New York or Chicago might have comparable experience...and I also have experience driving in Italy and Dubai.

You also fall into the same group of people who don't understand speed laws. A speed limit sign is *not* a hard and fast law, depending on the type of violation, but of course, I have to explain this to you because you never get tickets, right? Go look up 'basic speed law'. Also, remember that I didn't just fight tickets, I beat them legally (as is my right) and I've gotten my money back from tickets I've won. You can't accuse me of 'breaking the law' when I am winning ticket cases in court because by definition a win is NOT GUILTY.

The idea of 'guilt' is the very item in question. A ticket, to explain the basics to you, is not a GUiLTY verdict, it's a promise to appear in court (in lieu of admitting guilt and paying bail).

I shouldn't have you teach you the basics, but you're promoting false information via ignorance. Maybe you should just go Google and and respond when you're more informed. Until then, stop with your empty Ad Hominem about me getting banned from a splinter forum that YOU ALSO MODERATE, because I see you as part of the problem, not the solution. You don't even want to be a moderator here and for some reason, you're still here.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

but you're promoting false information via ignorance

'sleepy Tennessee'..showing YOUR ignorance, Boy Wonder.

"fallacious"...I told you,Rodger.

Fallacious logic:  that would be saying Tennessee doesn't have interstates,heavy traffic...etc... you never having been here.

You are full of crap. And you seem to be the only person who doesn't know it.

And I LOVE the way you rationalize everything by twisting the facts to suit your needs.

[NukleoN 34]

That is a bit personal & that is against forum rules Nuk If you had not used " your " & instead used " a person's " it would have been general , but still having the same jab type purpose . You then compare John to your Mom who you say is a " aweful driver "

No, I am not comparing John to my mom directly. I am simply saying that NOT getting tickets does NOT mean you are a better (skill, observation, care) driver than someone who DOES get tickets. Yes, it might mean I get caught doing 80 on the freeway sometimes, but in L.A. almost everyone in the number 1-3 lanes on the freeway goes about 80, barring a few who are too slow (or trucks and buses) in the right lanes. This makes the freeway one giant speed trap. Of course, the slow guy driving 65 in the left lane is technically obeying the speed limit, but I guarantee you, do 65 in the fast lane on any freeway during free-flowing conditions and you will be inciting road rage and aggressive passes, high-beams, etc.

The accepted concept is that if a driver  does not get traffic tickets , that driver is a safer driver with better driver skills than drivers who get tickets !

FALSE. THis is the very thing in question. You can't just assume the point, it has to be proved. The only thing you can infer from someone who doesn't get tickets is that they don't get tickets. They might be older, female, in a car which blends in more (think soccer mom) or they may simply put fewer miles on their vehicles than others. If you want to compare skill, compare AT-FAULT ACCIDENTS, not just traffic infractions.

Even if the driver that gets tickets has the driving skill of Richard Petty , they did not obey the laws that are enforcing safety . so a non-ticketed driver winds up being safer than a highly skilled assgressive driver .

We're talking skill, observation, care, etc. If Richard Petty got a ticket, he's still a better driver than most of us. Some of the best drivers in the world also probably like to drive at a good clip, and they are more likely to get tickets. I think drivers who drive too SLOW are more dangerous, because they create unwitting obstacle courses for everyone else. Also, I've gotten some tickets but I also beat most of them, which means a NOT GUILTY verdict and thus, not guilty of any infraction.

The insurance industry uses that to determiine rates & most people would think a driver with no tickets at all in 39 years has better skills than someone with 39 tickets in 1 year ( opposite of John's record ) or many tickets in 39 years . . Assgressive drivers usually have many accidents in their rear-view . I have had my comercial driver's license for 37 years ... poor lane discipline results in a traffic blockage ( slow moving traffic jamb ) .. assgressive drivers swerving thru is what causes the accidents.. I have seen it MANY times .

Yes, but you don't know how I drive. I have zero at-fault accidents. My thing is, I like a decent flow with momentum, and slow jerks who clog the fast lanes cause lane-changes. Lane-changes attract cop attention more than people who will just sit behind some slowpoke forever, until he decides to pull his head out of his bum. Again, there are good drivers who get tickets, and some very BAD drivers who don't, because there are a multitude of ways to create traffic hazards.

I am just a member as you are here , but consider this another friendly warning from a fellow forum member , You are not missing many if any chances to jab at John .. that has NOT done well for anybody in the past . I don't think you are striving for the truth about anything as much as looking for a chance to take personal jabs at a couple people . It would be better for you & the members here to stop the negative stuff & continue with positive stuff .

I would like to remind you that John is making way more claims about my character than I ever have about his. I am remind you to look at both sides.

[NukleoN 34]

but you're promoting false information via ignorance

'sleepy Tennessee'..showing YOUR ignorance, Boy Wonder.

"fallacious"...I told you,Rodger.

Fallacious logic:  that would be saying Tennessee doesn't have interstates,heavy traffic...etc... you never having been here.

You are full of crap. And you seem to be the only person who doesn't know it.

Really? Are you REALLY comparing Tennessee to L.A.? REALLY? You sir, have clearly never driven in L.A. traffic. Yes, I am sure you have your busy days, but I guarantee you that any insurance company wouldn't consider Tennessee the same risk as L.A. Shall we test it? By the way, I never said Tennesse had NO Interstates or heavy traffic. I am saying it's not as bad as L.A. You sir, should try to be more honest with your appraisal of my points so you're not forced into transparent strawman.

I will once again remind you that you ignore most of my points and resorted (yet again) to empty Ad-Hominem. I don't need to twist facts, John, because they generally work in my favor.

[BannerJohn 1,324]

test what? Your reasoning is so twisted that I can't even begin to get my mind around it. And you know what? You state something as a FACT when it is only your opinion,and people are getting tired of it.