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hey everyone.

I was wondering.  When a customer comes to you and wants work done and it takes time to design it.  Do you charge for that time?

For instance, I have had a guy come to me and want his box trailer lettered up and his company logo on it.  He had a bunch of stuff that he wanted on it. So I went and made a mock up of it.  Took a photo of his trailer and lettered it, even added the dimensions of the letters and graphic.  And now he is putting off having it done.  I have a sneaky suspicion that he is taking it to other shops and getting prices or having someone else do it, now that I went and did the work.

What do you do?

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    I don't know if you created it on a computer or not, but if so, you can prove that the design was yours prior to it being installed by any other company. I work in the construction field and that is how the architects protect their drawings. They don't own the building, but they do own the copyright on the construction documents that they created.

    In the future, I would use my computer to create the layouts and superimpose "Property of Company Name" on the final images.

Charlie

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Another option I have used in other businesses with the same situation ( perc tests & septic systems )...  is to have them pay a design fee up front . Then allow them to apply that amount to the cost of decals if & when they have it done . They think they are getting something for free & in a way they are , but I had that cost built into the final cost .

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Absolutely! Design work has value. Artists cost money, especially if you have to hire someone. I am quite leery of doing a bunch of measuring or going to a customer's place without a payment or retainer. I come from the art field, so I've done a ton of freelancing. One way to protect yourself is to charge your consultation fee *up front*, and it's non-refundable. This way, if the customer backs out you lose nothing (well you gain the consult fee). Also, the customer probably won't even pay the consult fee if he's not serious, so then you don't have to do anything and can let the customer come back when he's ready.

Depending on the job, I'll charge 40-50 an hour for a design assuming the customer has exclusive-use rights (I won't be cutting and selling them). Usually I will try to keep the costs to 50 bucks but if it's really complex I'll charge more.  

Hope that helps.

NukleoN

hey everyone.

I was wondering.  When a customer comes to you and wants work done and it takes time to design it.  Do you charge for that time?

For instance, I have had a guy come to me and want his box trailer lettered up and his company logo on it.  He had a bunch of stuff that he wanted on it. So I went and made a mock up of it.  Took a photo of his trailer and lettered it, even added the dimensions of the letters and graphic.  And now he is putting off having it done.  I have a sneaky suspicion that he is taking it to other shops and getting prices or having someone else do it, now that I went and did the work.

What do you do?

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We have run into this on occasion with a sign shop in our small town.We now tell the person up front that its our artwork and make them payfor it before it leaves.we are at 45.00 and hour.If you gave him a disc of the artwork you can copy and paste the us copyright. laws to it.I stopped the guy in out town in his tracks with this.It is kind of an unwritten thing between companies not to produce anything from anoter companies artwork.I hope this helps Dan @ svsignworks :thumbsup:

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Guest round2racing

I had this happen ONCE, and only ONCE.  Learned my lesson from that one.

I spent two days designing a logo for a fleet of landscaping trucks and trailers.

I superimposed the designs onto pictures of the trailers and trucks and gave them to the owner for approval by his wife.

A couple weeks later I see these trucks with MY design running around my city.

I called the owner and he tried to tell me that he found someone cheaper than me.

Now, I take the copy to the person for approval, but I do not give the copy to them.  I don't charge up-front, but there is no way I am giving them anything until I have a signed contract for the job.

I lost about $800 worth of business from that one situation and I won't do it again.

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Okay.  So, if I send it to him as a PDF and inside that PDF file info it has my copyright info and all.  Would that be rights for copyright infringement?

And from now on I'm going to charge an art fee.  I'll include that in the price of the job.  Thanks your all your help guys.

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I would assume that would be proof enough , but the problem is the cost of persuing a civil lawsuit . Especially with the gamble of not collecting enough to cover your lawyer fees . Sometimes even when you get a judgement , the person is judgement immune & hard to collect . ( my opinion & experience )

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When showing proofs, show in the lowest quality possible. It won't stop an expert from vectorizing, but most customers don't know how to vectorize and would have to get someone else to 'steal' or uprez your artwork.

Also, if someone retains your time, 'finding someone else cheaper' doesn't undo the time and agreement you had to develop commisioned artwork, especially if you've sent a proof. The proof is tantamount to delivery, albeit provisional delivery pending payment. One way to avoid thorny issues with fickle clients is to arrange a cancellation fee ahead of time, or work on a 'half up front half on delivery' method. If the client flakes, you still have half.

One thing about a client using your design without paying you and finding something cheaper...that artwork is your copyright until the client pays you. There's no 'work for hire' transfer of ownership until you are paid for the art. So, if a client uses your logo but doesn't pay you, sue for copyright violation. You have your emails and other communication as a paper trail.

Now, lawsuits aren't quick, easy or fun, but sometimes there's enough of a violation (and you're sufficiently bored or motivated enough) to teach certain clients a lesson, especially if they're doing something so blatant as using your work but refuse to pay you. This is such an open and shut case it's not even funny. Most people fear the legal process, but it's not nearly as bad as it seems. I've fought my traffic tickets, and I beat 6 out of 7, and not just from cops not showing up either...we're talking affirmative cases were I proved the cop was in the wrong...and these are cops! Clients are much less intimidating, and most clients will fear being sued much more than cops hate traffic court.

Also, if you freelance enough, eventually you're going to have to motivate certain clients, and knowing your legal rights and the legal process makes you a more confident service provider. At the very least, it's worth being familar with the legal process should you need to use it.

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That is what I do in the construction side and on vinyl I charge for the time to design their work and apply a credit to the job if they have you do it. Why spend the time to come up with a design and then they have it and can get the vinyl  cheaper from someone else because of no time involved in design work.

I had a customer call my handyman business after a huge snow fall that tore off porches awnings etc. for a estimate  the lady even had the audacity to state that she and her husband would do the work their self but needed a estimate for the insurance co. .  When I quoted a price of 106.00 up for the estimate she got irate saying the f-----g phone book said free estimates.

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Boy, this has me thinking ALOT. I just designed two jobs....well priced jobs and showed them the "superimposed" versions of them....and I dont know if they will think its alot or not but I feel it could definitely take a turn where I could lose business. granted my pricing is cheap, but there is still that chance. Im going to have to keep all this information in mind the next time I deal with designing work for someone.....

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