Flee Market Sign Shop is it Legal?

[Rodger 527]

Well Thor ... ,

  By now you know , that I know , that you know , that I know , that you have the same sense of humor as I do  . It is a case by case situation if at all possible . I'm sure some companies will not authorize or sell the right to reproduce what is theirs for any amount of $$$ . Others will give you the right ( from what I have read , no personal knowledge ) . Most in between , but I'm guessing not many people here have actually tried to buy that right from any company .

you say " WHat do royalties cost?  that is IF you have the "right stuff" to be able to do it??  "

What do you mean by " right stuff "   now I know , that you know , that I don't know what you meant 

[Rodger 527]

  :)   YEP !!!

Some companies might require a " store front " business to deal with . I would think that any of those companies selling the right to reproduce would sell to someone who does not have a store front , especially since the e-bay generation started . I'm sure they would require certain standards & have inspections etc , but I think you would not have to have what you describe until they decided to do business with you . Then they would state what vinyl , vectors etc has to be used . I have a buddy who does alot of body repair & paint work for Coke a Cola co. His Mom has worked at Coke her entire career . Coke has the red paint they use patented . They give him the vector to make decals to go on their trucks & cars .

1 way to find out the answer to your question , call or contact Bill Watterson or Andrews McMeel (?) & let us know what you find out . I'm just guessing based off of what I know & have experienced  . Ya know ? 

[haumana 1,220]

I love this discussion!

The local flea market here has no less than two vendors with some serious inventory, and a big van so they can do "on-site" requests. They will setup up shop, have shoe boxes full of original designs, and just about the same amount of them that I know are infringing on some companies' copyright. And a few booths down, I can find the multi-media guys that are selling bootlegged music and movies. They've only been raided once to my knowledge. After few search warrants for those vendors, one of them turned out to be a jackpot bust. They found over $500k worth of duplicating equipment at one of the vendor's private residences.

Can anyone here honestly say that they have not cut something that was infringing? I've cut stuff for my personal use, and others have been recipients of items that have "fallen off the back of a truck."

While making money with the cutter would be the greatest thing in the world, I need to sleep at night and karma can be a bitch.

On somewhat of a tangent ... are the ringtones on cell phones infringement?

[Rodger 527]

    If it is RAP music & in my hearing distance .. IT IS infringement of my sanity . there are a few rap somgs I like , but that is pushing it 

[tory 0]

Haumana I can honestly say I have not cut or embroidered copyrighted material. It is very tempting, especially after seeing the setup at the fair last week, but I don't like the idea of lounging behind bars. :-

[Rodger 527]

    That is most likely why some people have little fear of selling that stuff in public . They have to be charged criminally to be put in jail .  I don't think many regular cops are going to charge them criminally . Not many companies aggressively sue offenders . Most of those people know a civil suit does not put a person in jail & they sometimes set up the business so no judgement can be collected ( judgement immune ) . They can be " an employee " & not be responsible etc . Hard & expensive for a company to pursue & especially prove violations , that is why many turn the " let's make a settlement " legal teams loose as with what happened to Lara . When there is a task force that goes after them , then criminal charges are made . IMO , a crime like jay-walking though not as dangerous  . A crime that is in the books , but very rarely enforced criminally .

[tory 0]

Rodg, while all the above is most likely true I don't have the time/money/trust for our court system. Daughter is in her last year of law school, but she told me I had to make her look good so best not be messing w copyright stuff.  She told me that after I told her to make sure she learned all the ins and outs of trademark/copyright law.

[Rodger 527]

Tory ,

That is great about your Daughter finishing law school . You must be proud  . Tell her BG's # 1 fan congratulates her !!!

I agree with you , I would not make anything questionable for anybody other than myself & even though i should not , I would make some things for friends . I have made some Chevy bowties for myself & my son's in-laws ( personal name inserted in the middle ) . NOT worth the risk  ( even if minute ) for what profit there is making them for anybody else . I feel fairly safe from a lawsuit or prosecution making what I do ( the not getting caught attitude might get me as I look they the wrong side of jail bars ) .

[tnwalkinghorse 0]

Wow!  What did I start here?  This is a great discussion.  Thanks (so far) for everyone's input.  I am going to start visiting that Flee Market regularly now and see what else goes on.  These people that own/work there should know better...they have to be in their 40's & 50's.  About 4 of them work the booth.  (Not that that's old...cause I am up their too!)

[Rodger 527]

I ask the people at flea markets about the copyrighted & trademarked stuff they sell .... the most common answer is " Oh , it's awl-right "  but it is easy to tell they get paranoid .

[Rodger 527]

Can somebody look me up some " Judgement forms " as Thor is talking about & post them for me , I don't feel like looking myself  ( TIC )  :thumbsup:

[Rodger 527]

OK , I'm not in that much of a hurry , when you get it for me .. let me know  , T - I - C

[NukleoN 34]

This is one reason my business model is completely custom, that is, custom graphics and lettering. I figured I can't compete with those willing to break copyright laws, but with original art nobody can compete with me and if they steal and sell my work, I can sue them and make even more money.

Those flea-market people will piss-off someone and get anonymously turned in at some point, I bet, especially by annoyed competition who are trying to stay within the law. I'd be very worried working out in the open like that with blatant copyright infringement going on.

For non-artists, I think if you hire an artist for a couple hours, even a skilled college-student, you can generate a lot of designs unique to you as long as you pay the artist as 'work for hire' where you own the work. There are royalty-free collections (which I might buy as well) but we gotta be careful what we're buying so we're not just getting a disc someone threw together with copyright infringement built-in and a false sense of security.

I like the idea of writing to a company and getting permission, you might be able to get permission for a few years or in perpetuity!

[mr300s 1,272]

I have to agree however I think everyone on the entire forum has seen this one time or another.  It is in every State at every flea market and it continues to go on.

Take a look at Ebay, how much simpler could it get to be caught.  I mean type in Harley Davidson or some of the racing teams tons of them come up.  They cut them and sell them and cut them and sell them , and the folks that don't want to take that chance struggle trying to sell their decals that are not trademarked.

It doesn't appear to me that anything happens to these folks if it did how could there be so many on ebay doing it.  I was just looking through ebay yesterday and could not believe the thousands of trademark items for sale, and I am sure they don't all have permission, in fact Bet there isn't 2% that have permission?  So what gives?

End of rant...... :thumbsup:

[BigDaddyChris 2]

My "OPINION" is that if a client walks in and wants a 3 foot wide Nike logo on their car, I'll make it. Where else are they going to get one? and its not like I am selling a counterfeit nike car, cause nike doesnt sell cars.

#1. the police aren't going to come kick down my door for copyright infringement.

I am not selling port and company tee-shirts with nike logos on them claiming that they are real nike apparel. that's the difference between counterfeit items and copyright infringement.

selling counterfeit items is illegal

copyright infringement is a civil matter.

I have been sent a cease and desist letter by krispy creme for some "donut seeds I was selling on (guess where) Ebay! they sent me a 6 page letter asking me to stop prduction of the novelty item. which I did. but I countered their letter with an offer to sell them the idea, I havent heard back from them.  ha ha.

so if a client comes in and want me to make a custom logo for whatever, I'll do it. If someone went to a different sign shop and had a big daddy logo made up to put on their car, hell yeah! I'd love the free advertising. but if someone was making big daddy shirts claiming to be me, i'd be upset. thats where I see the difference.

copyright doesnt mean you can call the cops cause someone made a copy of your logo without permission. you can hire a lawyer and pay a bunch of money to sue the person and try to prove that some guy in a flea market has hurt your profits by selling your logo as a decal. pretty hard to do and in most cases not worth it. thats why people in flea markets do it.

thats my "opinion" were all entitled to one.

[MZ SKEETER 4,709]

you may not have been on here long enough to read this thread,  But I still don't want to be in her shoes..  She got hit with a copyright infringement  suit.

http://forum.uscutter.com/index.php/topic,19074.0.html

[Rodger 527]

Butcheries , You are right & anybody is safe until a company that most likely gets paid on a percentage of the awards/settlements files a civil suit like they did with Lara ( other thread linked above ) It really doesn't take much of a lawyer , a paralegal could do everything but the actual trial ( IF it went to trial ... most don't ) .

Reminds me of the people who call for donations for the local Fire Department . If you donate to them , the actual fire department gets 20% . The fire department gets 20 % & is happy , just like De Walt gets some money & stops what they don't like . Me, I don't understand as seems they would like the advertisement they get for free

[sarconastic 29]

Your know it's is kind of funny, that the copyright holders don't get organized like the record companies have lately. I live in Podunk Iowa in the middle of nowhere. lately all the local bars, and anyone who provides Live entertainment, Ie, bands, DJ,s, karaoke, have been getting a visit from ascap, and or BMI. these are organizations put together for the sole purpose of pretecting the copyright infringement of Musical artists works. What they do is go into a venue and base don teh capacity of the venue, they tell the Owner they have to pay a flat rate per year, in order for their clients to get their royalties of any songs of theirs that might,, I emphasize Might be played in the bar that year. It can range from $400 to $5000 a year depending on the size of the venue.

If they don't pay, they send in a spy to catch them in the act, and can actually have the place shut down, until a resolution is reached.

they have also been doing this with local DJ's and Karaoke jocks, to make sure they have legitimate copies of the music they are providing.

But in our business it would be nice if we could actually pay a flat rate of say a few hundred a year and give us the authorization to make a certain number of a long list of copyright images. they provide you with a disc of stock vectors for the companies they represent and off we go. Then we wouldn't have to worry about it anymore.

Kevin