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mudeater18

Purchased Defective Oracal 651 from USC ....Anyone else...?

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LOL ,  :thumbsup: I don't like chocolate , but if we can make them with caramel .. Ye-Ha

I don't trust people who don't like Chcolate. It is unatural.

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  Jeopardy  for 100  " World's most widely consumed poison " .. correct answer " What is chocolate "

  besides white chocolate & milk chocolate in Reese's Cups , I will gladly give my share of chocolate to others .

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Guest sciondrgn

LOL ,  :) I don't like chocolate , but if we can make them with caramel .. Ye-Ha

I don't trust people who don't like Chcolate. It is unatural.

I cant eat chocolate, I'm allergic

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LOL ,  :) I don't like chocolate , but if we can make them with caramel .. Ye-Ha

I don't trust people who don't like Chcolate. It is unatural.

I cant eat chocolate, I'm allergic

Now that's a great reason for not eating chocolate. I have a friend that is allergic too, even the "chocolate" cookies on the Oreo's. She didn't develop the allergy until she adult hood ... probably in conjunction with her finding out she was a diabetic.

Bummer. I generally eat chocolate for a couple of days, once a month ... a lot of women do  :)

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LOL ,  ;D I don't like chocolate , but if we can make them with caramel .. Ye-Ha

I don't trust people who don't like Chcolate. It is unatural.

I cant eat chocolate, I'm allergic

Uh-Oh , John does not trust you either  ;D

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Ok, I've read through this whole thread. Looks like my insomnia is kicking in haha.

There are two issues at play here. Mud made a claim about 'defective' vinyl. The second issue is that he received 641 instead of 651. These need to be dealt with separately.

First, (Mud) made a claim about some or all of a roll of vinyl (641) being defective. However, this claim must have grounds for falsification as in:

'If U.S. Cutter can cut, weed it and then use the correct app-tape and lift the vinyl in a reasonable fashion with expected results, it's not defective and Mud is incorrect about his claim'.

Since U.S. Cutter is versed in vinyl-cutting, being in the business of selling vinyl supplies, they could also verify the defect (if it exists as claimed) and then they'd take that up with Oracal and Mud would get his money back for the shipping/vinyl (if he hadn't used it all). Chances are, if there was a bad lot of vinyl, there would be more people complaining who got their shipments of 641 around the same time Mud did (in the same color).

In this case where the vinyl is found not to be defective, I like John's idea of simply refunding the difference between the cost of the 641 and 651 *if most of the 641 was left intact and returned to USC for testing*. It's reasonable to expect that a customer would use part of a defective roll and immediately send it back upon discovering the defect, but using a whole roll leaves little recourse for a full refund.  

A claim of 'defect' is unproved and the company or manufacturer should at least be given the chance to test the claim for themselves, with grounds for independent verification or falsification, but this would require sending some portion of the unused roll back to USC. If a customer refuses to accept shipping costs and uses the whole roll, there's little recourse for U.S. Cutter other than the customer adapted to the vinyl and got the jobs done. The roll effectively 'did the job' and within deadline, even if there's concern about its longevity.

As BJohn mentioned, improper technique or the wrong app-tape will cause problems when trying to remove your vinyl with the app-tape. I've had this happen to me personally, but I don't blame the vinyl because using different tape, correct offset or lower blade pressure fixed the issue.

Second, there is the separate issue of the customer receiving Oracal 641 instead of 651 and worrying about the durability of this product. Indeed, receiving the wrong product when you're running a business is no small inconvenience. However, cutting what you believe to be sub-par vinyl for paying customers isn't a good choice either.

I would have informed my customers about a slight delay, rush-ordered 651 from U.S. Cutter (or picked it up locally) and done the work with the right vinyl. Then, I would have sent most of the allegedly 'defective' roll back to USC and worked out the shipping difference later pending the verification of my claim. I would never pump out 50 decals with the 'wrong' vinyl simply because I happened to get the wrong one, because the downside of fading vinyl is worse than a slight delay, especially if you explain to customers what happened and that you only want the best quality for them. Besides, the mistake wasn't even yours, so there's little to blame you for.  

To expound on the alleged defect a bit more, I am comparing likelihood here. How likely is it that Oracal botched a roll of 641 vinyl vs. the likelihood that a customer simply got one of many variables a little wrong and made lifting the vinyl with app-tape more difficult? It's my guess that the customer likely got something a little off in his settings, and this is the real issue. I know this because it's happened to me and I've read about it from others on this forum. There are numerous variables to get right and it's easy to create a situation where vinyl may not want to stick to your app-tape as expected.

Since the vinyl is probably not defective (especially since Mud used the whole roll), I'd give USC the benefit of the doubt, but also let them test your claim. The claim becomes moot once the customer uses the entire roll, and after all...how defective was it if Mud was able to use the whole roll, anyway?

The only issue left is that Mud got the wrong roll. U.S. Cutter could make this right by comping something small (maybe shipping on his next order) on top of the refund for the difference between 641 and 651 and I think that would resolve it. Then, Mud should check his settings and make sure he's not making his vinyl-cutting process unnecessarily difficult and lastly, always check your stock before taking big jobs and inflexible deadlines so you're not at the mercy of someone in a shipping room who didn't drink his coffee that morning. ;D

I know this is a late response, and chances are the issue is long-resolved. I just wanted to weigh in as it's an interesting dilemna.

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Why dig up something from over a year ago? It just don't make any sense. I'm sure this was resolved way back in July 2009!

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BigFoot ,

I agree , better to " let sleeping dogs sleep " rather than drudge up dirty laundry . I agree with Nuk's perspective , but it was always an easy situation to decide on . Huamana said it better & much shorter  ;D " And there just was no way for you to get vinyl shipped to you by next day air from another supplier? If you ran into a case like this, you could've asked USC to pay for those shipping costs because they created this hardship for you.

you lose. you used the entire roll. it was not defective, just a type that you've not worked with before.

suck it up. then shut up."

I think there is a pop-up or something that suggests starting a new thread instead of replying to an old thread .

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every post will be answered with an essay before this is done, no matter how old . . .  This could be a long year :-

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Guest AndrewJ

Nuke did add this disclaimer: "I know this is a late response, and chances are the issue is long-resolved. I just wanted to weigh in as it's an interesting dilemna."

This happened before I was here, but we're pretty good about issuing Return Labels for wrong products shipped, or even Call Tags depending on the difficulty of the customer shipping the product back to us.  We typically replace the product at no additional cost to the customer, of course this is not a universal rule... use the entire product, and...  :-, it becomes a customer support issue.

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I was in the concession biz for 30 years. I once had a customer come back and say that her corn dog wasn't done. Still gooey in the center. I asked to see it...she said she ate it. She wanted her money back.

You think I gave it to her?

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I was in the concession biz for 30 years. I once had a customer come back and say that her corn dog wasn't done. Still gooey in the center. I asked to see it...she said she ate it. She wanted her money back.

You think I gave it to her?

I wouldn't have either. ;D Heck yes it was done...she was done eating it! Hahahaa.

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every post will be answered with an essay before this is done, no matter how old . . .  This could be a long year :-

I was just weighing-in and I know the issue has probably been resolved (as I mentioned).

I was curious to see how my resolution would fit in line with what others have suggested. To me, this is an interesting real-life case-study both as someone who frequents this forum and a business owner who sells product.  

I'd be curious to find out if Mud still buys items from U.S. Cutter after whatever resolution took place.

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BigFoot ,

I agree , better to " let sleeping dogs sleep " rather than drudge up dirty laundry . I agree with Nuk's perspective , but it was always an easy situation to decide on . Huamana said it better & much shorter  :) " And there just was no way for you to get vinyl shipped to you by next day air from another supplier? If you ran into a case like this, you could've asked USC to pay for those shipping costs because they created this hardship for you.

you lose. you used the entire roll. it was not defective, just a type that you've not worked with before.

suck it up. then shut up."

I think there is a pop-up or something that suggests starting a new thread instead of replying to an old thread .

Well, I also said it without insulting Mud or telling him to 'shut up'. I think there's room for civility even when we disagree. ;D I also thoroughly outlined the issues on both sides with various solutions I would have applied in the same situation. I explained problems with the claim of 'defective vinyl' and why it's probably 'user error'.

I don't rule out that the vinyl was perhaps defective, just that U.S. Cutter needs to be given the chance to verify this extraordinary claim...which is impossible if Mud used the entire roll and didn't send any back to USC for testing.

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every post will be answered with an essay before this is done, no matter how old . . .  This could be a long year :-

I was just weighing-in and I know the issue has probably been resolved (as I mentioned).

I understand & think you drive " probably been resolved ( as I mentioned ) . " home to the extreme  :) .

Nuk , Don't let Dakota fool you .. He LOVES to read your essays  :)  ;D

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every post will be answered with an essay before this is done, no matter how old . . .  This could be a long year :-

I was just weighing-in and I know the issue has probably been resolved (as I mentioned).

I understand & think you drive " probably been resolved ( as I mentioned ) . " home to the extreme  ;D .

Nuk , Don't let Dakota fool you .. He LOVES to read your essays  :)   :)

Oh I am sure. :)

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:) , I understand this also .. but it is non-productive time we all spend  ;D

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A lot typing time wasted on this little baby :);D:)

Joe

Who wasted their time, me? I probably type faster than some people read. :)

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Where is that dead horse ?  :huh:

Nuke , I probably talk faster than most people can listen  :thumbsup: . pay attention to the icons .. FUNNY icons meant to be funny !  :huh:

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