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mudeater18

Purchased Defective Oracal 651 from USC ....Anyone else...?

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We have told him to call Oracal... We have lots of customers that call Oracal and Oracal actually processes a refund to us and then we are supposed to pass it on to the client. We did this just last week for a client. Long story short, there are options for the customer and we can only do so much without the customers involvement.

The offer I made in my earlier post still stands.

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OP...no posts,no sign-on to the forums in 5 days..no posts other than this thread. It wouldn't be the first time someone joined the forums just to bash USC.

and for the OP...some vinyl is more difficult to remove from the backing paper..some app tape works well with some vinyl, not well with others...and technique is everything.

And,FYI...If you are cutting too deep,into the backing paper slightly, it can be hard to turn lose.

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Yea- he either got fed up with the run around and being called a liar, or he was just here to bash USC and promote another seller. I am leaning towards the latter seeing as how he has not been back.

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Yea- he either got fed up with the run around and being called a liar, or he was just here to bash USC and promote another seller. I am leaning towards the latter seeing as how he has not been back.

we've seen plenty of 'em come and go,haven't we,Ken?

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Yea- he either got fed up with the run around and being called a liar, or he was just here to bash USC and promote another seller. I am leaning towards the latter seeing as how he has not been back.

we've seen plenty of 'em come and go,haven't we,Ken?

Indeed

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This is standard policy. If you are claiming that something is defective send it back to us! If it turns out that it is defective the shipping is refunded! I do not see the problem with this.

USC would rather pay more and lose time and hassel by shipping the vinyl back to them (which costs about as much as the roll to begin with), verifying its bad, shipping out a new roll, and then trying to reimburse shipping as well as losing alot of time, than just trusting the customer and shipping out a new one?  I understand this policy on a cutter or something, but not vinyl.

Exactly my feelings !

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OK, Here goes. Good to see so many people taking an "Interest" in my situation ! I'll try to respond to everone's comments. First of all I'm a very busy person and no money is made hanging out on this site 24/7, so you're right I haven't logged on in a few days. First of all, I have now sent pictures of the backing paper thats shows that it is 641. The offer to do that was extended to me "yesterday" at 4 o'clock, not weeks ago as you post suggests. And yes, I used the roll. This has been going on since 4/29/09 and the first offer to replace the roll was yesterday by Max Reinhart in our phone conversation. It's not like I used it and then complained about it. I stated my concern in May and finished the roll in July, so that's not the case as you are making it sound. I figured I might as well finish it off, because I'm not ever going to see a replacement for it at he rate we going. The replacement roll and return shipping was never brought up until yesterday ! I have all the e-mails saved, and WILL post them if you want to get that started.

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After speaking with the customer we were informed that the customer used the entire role on a job. He has nothing to ship back for a refund. His argument to us is that the vinyl will fail earlier because he believes the vinyl is 641 instead of 651 that he ordered. He could not provide pictures of the backing that supposedly indicates that it is 641. We however do not doubt him but are confused as too why he would want a refund on a product he used... This has been an ongoing issue and we originally offered him a replacement roll and return shipping... This was stipulated based on his returning the original product in it's entirety....

My question is if you eat the taco how can we refund you for it?

This issue is very cut and dry... I invite common sense response, we are very consistent in our policy and we intend on keeping customers by continuing to provide this type of service.

Here on the forum I will extend an offer to MUDEATER that if he provides a simple picture without even sending it back we will credit him the full roll of the vinyl. This option has already been on the table and it will continue to be on the table.

It's weird to even have to spend time on this or that so many people would read this...?

Pics of backing paper have now been sent. They are sitting in Max Reinhart's mailbox. This offer was extended to me yesterday 7/9. Pics were sent today 7/10.

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This is standard policy. If you are claiming that something is defective send it back to us! If it turns out that it is defective the shipping is refunded! I do not see the problem with this.

Is this a "New" policy Levi ?

Here is a copy of the e-mail you sent me on 6/23:

I am trying to get a call tag authorized for this. I will let you know when I get an answer.

LEVI HARTZOG

SUPPORT SPECIALIST & CUSTOMER ADVOCATE

425.481.3555 or 1.888.298.8143 x7116 [/glow]

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Oracal sells us the rolls and seals them. we don't open the rolls.... This was a mistake and we said we would correct it, he used the vinyl anyway...!?! This is a nutty situation we are real good about correcting this type of issues. In fact Oracal covers this type of expense, you can even call them direct and get a refund... The issue here is the customers lack of involvement in the process. We have been waiting for him to initiate the return and replacement process! Listen if you get something faulty we want to replace it, we want to take care of customers, that is our goal...

We always offer a solution and we try to work with every customer to a successful end!

Here your "Customers lack of involvement" in the process:

I initiated the first question/complaint through the website forum on approx 5/17/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Brandon Davis on 6/1/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Levi Hartzog on 6/22/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Levi Hartzog on 6/23/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Max Reinhart on 7/1/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Max Reinhart on 7/6/09

I corresponded by phone with Max Reinhart on 7/6/09

I corresponded by e-mail with Max Reinhart on 7/10/09

How much more customer involvement do you need for 2 rolls of defective vinyl to be replaced ?

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well, IMHO..if he used the ENTIRE ROLL then USC should just give him Oracal's phone number and tell him to call Oracal if (or when) problems show up. It;s one thing to say a product is defective (meaning it doesn't so what it is supposed to do)..another thing altogether to use it all and then start making excuses. I have a roll of Oracal here that I won't use because I don't like the way it weeds. That doesn't mean it is defective. It just means that I don't like the way it weeds. The customers say he 'believes' it is 641,not 651...on what is this based? Is he an expert who can tell by looking? I cut average 100 yards of vinyl a week and have been doing so for 4 years....I can't tell one from another except cast from calendared..just by looking at it.

The reason I "Believe" it's not 651 is that the backing paper has 641 printed on it. I didn't notice it until the jobs were cut and gone and I was cleaning up. Here is photo of the backing paper. It it very light as Oracal prints in Light Gray on white paper. I didn't know what 641 was so I went to the Oracal website only to read "Not recommended for vehicle use". My concern is, I used it on 50 vehicle door logos, that are sold, installed and gone. What am I going to tell them when they call back in a couple years because their red is now pink ? It was an honest mistake, "Don't worry about it, I got my $20 roll replaced 2 years ago" !

post-5535-1298654054738_thumb.jpg

post-5535-12986540558336_thumb.jpg

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We have told him to call Oracal... We have lots of customers that call Oracal and Oracal actually processes a refund to us and then we are supposed to pass it on to the client. We did this just last week for a client. Long story short, there are options for the customer and we can only do so much without the customers involvement.

The offer I made in my earlier post still stands.

Please send me a copy of the e-mail where you told me to call Oracal. I have reviewed all of my e-mails and it has never been mentioned. I love how I been getting blown off for 2 months and now everones trying to cover their tracks to make this look like my fault. Sorry, I have all the e-mails saved, and I will post them for everyone to see. See my above post on "Lack of customer involvement !

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Yea- he either got fed up with the run around and being called a liar, or he was just here to bash USC and promote another seller. I am leaning towards the latter seeing as how he has not been back.

Sorry, it's the former, not the latter !

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Yea- he either got fed up with the run around and being called a liar, or he was just here to bash USC and promote another seller. I am leaning towards the latter seeing as how he has not been back.

we've seen plenty of 'em come and go,haven't we,Ken?

In a properly ran business, you'd see them come....and stay ! But, if you S H I * on them, they will GO ! And I feel I've been S H I * on !

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After speaking with the customer we were informed that the customer used the entire role on a job. He has nothing to ship back for a refund. His argument to us is that the vinyl will fail earlier because he believes the vinyl is 641 instead of 651 that he ordered. He could not provide pictures of the backing that supposedly indicates that it is 641. We however do not doubt him but are confused as too why he would want a refund on a product he used... This has been an ongoing issue and we originally offered him a replacement roll and return shipping... This was stipulated based on his returning the original product in it's entirety....

My question is if you eat the taco how can we refund you for it?

This issue is very cut and dry... I invite common sense response, we are very consistent in our policy and we intend on keeping customers by continuing to provide this type of service.

Here on the forum I will extend an offer to MUDEATER that if he provides a simple picture without even sending it back we will credit him the full roll of the vinyl. This option has already been on the table and it will continue to be on the table.

It's weird to even have to spend time on this or that so many people would read this...?

My question is How can a person order a "Steak" Taco, pay "Steak" taco price, and receive a "Tofu" taco and the customer service representative of the "Taco Hut" not refund his money or replace his "taco" for almost 2 months even though he has made numerous attempts via e-mail, and phone calls to have the situation reconciled ?

I'm sure this was purely a mistake, but a business who wants a customers return business, corrects their mistakes and we all move on.

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so,the material was NOT defective as you stated in your post..they just sent the wrong one. If you just noticed the 641 on the back after you used 50 yards, you must not have peeled the backing paper from the vinyl  (the right way) by laying the vinyl face down. This would account for the difficulty in removing it.

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Now thats a whole different story  - if you know you have the wrong item and use it anyways = using the entire roll then you must have not thought it was that bad.

I nyour example if I eat the tofu taco it must have been ok or I would not have eaten it all - just a bite!

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Now thats a whole different story  - if you know you have the wrong item and use it anyways = using the entire roll then you must have not thought it was that bad.

In your example if I eat the tofu taco it must have been ok or I would not have eaten it all - just a bite!

+1

OP stated that it was an issue from April yet only finished the roll in July yet continued to use it?? Not very defective if you were able to use it, was it now?  And even if it was not defective, but simply a quality (651 vs 641) or color error, then why did you continue to use it? Why didn't you send it back and ask for shipping reimbursement? I'm sorry, I refuse to believe that when you brought the "defect" or wrong color to their attention, that USC only offered to send a replacement roll a few days ago.

Dude, you stated that you continued to use it because, "I figured I might as well finish it off, because I'm not ever going to see a replacement for it at he rate we going."

That statement implies that you did not see a resolution in your favor, that being said - stop talking about it already. geez.

sucks.gif

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Funny...I don't even see that USC carries 641 on their website.

Brandon...refund the guy the difference in price between 641 and 651...that's all he deserves since he used the entire roll. If USC won't do it, find me a price chart somewhere (I can't find a price on 641) and I'll send him the money just to shut him up. Sounds like a typical case of wanting something for nothing to me.

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OP...no posts,no sign-on to the forums in 5 days..no posts other than this thread. It wouldn't be the first time someone joined the forums just to bash USC.and for the OP...some vinyl is more difficult to remove from the backing paper..some app tape works well with some vinyl, not well with others...and technique is everything.

And,FYI...If you are cutting too deep,into the backing paper slightly, it can be hard to turn lose.

I tried to keep the details off of the Forum in in e-mails and phone calls until BannerJohn says look he's not posting so he's just trying to start trouble. Then all the USC'ers come on here an try to cover their tracks with their excuses and say I did everything wrong to make their side look good.

Now, I post my side of the story, with proof, photos and copies of USC's actual e-mails and now I get this response B)?;D? And yes, it was 2 months and nearly 10 e-mail conversations before USC offered replacement material (in the form of a credit - not including shipping costs) which I have yet to receive.

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OP...no posts,no sign-on to the forums in 5 days..no posts other than this thread. It wouldn't be the first time someone joined the forums just to bash USC.and for the OP...some vinyl is more difficult to remove from the backing paper..some app tape works well with some vinyl, not well with others...and technique is everything.

And,FYI...If you are cutting too deep,into the backing paper slightly, it can be hard to turn lose.

I tried to keep the details off of the Forum in in e-mails and phone calls until BannerJohn says look he's not posting so he's just trying to start trouble. Then all the USC'ers come on here an try to cover their tracks with their excuses and say I did everything wrong to make their side look good.

Now, I post my side of the story, with proof, photos and copies of USC's actual e-mails and now I get this response B)?;D? And yes, it was 2 months and nearly 10 e-mail conversations before USC offered replacement material (in the form of a credit - not including shipping costs) which I have yet to receive.

Jeez...you use the entire roll, don't notice the marking and still expect full refund or replacement? I wish things worked like that. Again..wanting something for nothing.

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  Jeez...you use the entire roll, don't notice the marking and still expect full refund or replacement? I wish things worked like that. Again..wanting something for nothing.

I asked for a refund months before I noticed it was 641, because "IT WAS DEFECTIVE!" Finding out and reporting that it was actually 641 was a secondary issue.

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  Jeez...you use the entire roll, don't notice the marking and still expect full refund or replacement? I wish things worked like that. Again..wanting something for nothing.

I asked for a refund months before I noticed it was 641, because "IT WAS DEFECTIVE!"    Finding out and reporting that it was actually 641 was a secondary issue.

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defective because you didn't know the correct way to remove the backing paper? I will say again..not all vinyl is the same,not all application tape is the same. Some experience in the business will teach you this.

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