Guest Schramm

Read this one...

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I think what Schramm was trying to say is that you can sell it to the dealership because they are a legal representative but you cannot sell it to the mechanic because he is not and YOU would be profiting from it. If the mechanic wanted to do it for himself it would be OK.

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Guest round2racing

But, doesn't it also say something to the fact of $1,000 during a 180-day period?

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Guest Schramm

I think what Schramm was trying to say is that you can sell it to the dealership because they are a legal representative but you cannot sell it to the mechanic because he is not and YOU would be profiting from it. If the mechanic wanted to do it for himself it would be OK.

This is absolutley CORRECT - if the mechanic cut it for himself they that is PERSONAL USE!  If you cut it for him, then that is for financial gail.  This isnt rocket science, its just plain good ole common scense!  The BIGGEST VIOLATORS are those that cut DECALS at the flea market!

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Guest Schramm

But, doesn't it also say something to the fact of $1,000 during a 180-day period?

Look if you want the attorneys and IRS tearing into your stuff and looking over what you have and have not claimed over the term of your business then cut away!

As for why the mechanic can not paint the floor with the ford logo - I never said the MECHANIC CANT, I said YOU CANT and make a profit from it!!!

By the way my uncle Leo is a copywrite attorney and each one of these answers I know but I have asked him at the same time.  I have tried to get him to come here to post but he is way to busy!  Get it HE IS WAY TO BUSY - sueing violators as Leo works for the corporations.

BELOW IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE - JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR!

He is my advise since there is always people trying to find a loop hole in the legal system - Do what you want!  Take your chances!  Eventually get caught! 

OR

Take the time you are waisting stealing others artwork and do something useful with it like creating your own!

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Schramm

Is it legal to sell this?

Challenger.jpg

Either as a t shirt or a vector file?

There is no logo, no linking to anything. Yeah, most people know it is a Challenger.

Yes or No?

Joe

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Is it just me, or is everyone always using the term copyright, where really when dealing with these companies this is less of a copyright issue, and more of a trademark issue? 

Copyright is for artistic works, and gives the creator of the work the sole right to profit from the created work, which yes you can think of a logo or a design as an artistic work, and therefor its protected under copyright law, however you must have a registered copyright to be able to bring suit from my understanding.  Copyright is more from someone taking a design off your website, and selling it on theirs as their work.  This is also a problem in our line of work, but not the problem being discussed here in my opinion.

The issue I always see is trademark law, where a company establishes its logo and slogans in the marketplace, and in turn is able to to have to sole right to profit gain and advertise using those trademarks.  AKA ford motor company, everyone knows the logo, and they have the legal right to use it to represent them and their products and profit from that use, nobody else does.  You profit from that ford logo, you have infringed on their trademark plain and simple.  Fox racing has trademarked its logo, and has the sole right to profit from it.  Nike has trademarked "just do it" as it pertains to athletic apparel, and has the sole right to use that phrase with within the realm of athletic apparel to advertise and profit.  I can say just do it as a slogan for learning how to knit all I want, and that would not infringe on the trademark.

Bottom line......sure doing it is easy money, and sure it feels like the big bad company cracks down on us, but bottom line its the law....and you are dang straight if I came up with something and my company got bit, I would crack down on every single person who was making money off of my ides and my hard work and money. 

Also....under trademark law by my understanding, they owner of the trademark MUST defend against its use in the open market, if they do not they run the risk of it becoming a common phrase or logo to represent the industry, and hence would lose the trademark if they cannot prove they have fought to protect their integrity.....also a reason I think companies are actively out there defending their stuff.

Sorry if I am wrong, but since getting into business in this stuff i really wanted to find out what my risks were and what was legal and what was not, so I researched extensively.

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Guest Schramm

Mr. Right aka Schramm

Is it legal to sell this?

Challenger.jpg

Either as a t shirt or a vector file?

There is no logo, no linking to anything. Yeah, most people know it is a Challenger.

Yes or No?

Joe

Joe,

Call me whatever you want as I am secure in myself and business and if it makes you feel better being a smart as_ when someone is just trying to help then keep them coming.  Normally the ones doing something they know is wrong are the first to cock off.

As far as the shirt with the Challanger there is no problem with that the way it sits!  However if you added the company logo there would be!

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Mr. Right aka Schramm

Is it legal to sell this?

Challenger.jpg

Either as a t shirt or a vector file?

There is no logo, no linking to anything. Yeah, most people know it is a Challenger.

Yes or No?

Joe

Joe,

Call me whatever you want as I am secure in myself and business and if it makes you feel better being a smart as_ when someone is just trying to help then keep them coming.  Normally the ones doing something they know is wrong are the first to cock off.

As far as the shirt with the Challanger there is no problem with that the way it sits!  However if you added the company logo there would be!

Maybe it was just my interpretation but it seemed to me that he was asking the person who seems to have all the answers a legitimate question about the topic at hand. I don't see the smart as*ness of it and wouldn't think it deserved that particularly jaded response. No offense meant as it may well be the way I read into it.

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Yup, as Vicious Vinyl said, I didnt mean to offend you or start anything. I was just asking.

I dont like the way things are going so, from now on I will just shut up.

You keep doing things your way and I will do things my way and we will both be happy.

I wont take anything personal and I hope you dont either.

And please dont help me anymore.

Thank you

Joe

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FYI

I was just asking as I was browsing trough Shutterstock.com and saw they sell vector cars. They do not have logos, but anyone can identify them and I was wondering if it was legal or not.

1st image is obviously a Mustang & second one definitively a Mercedes

So I had a legit question and i turns out I cant ask.

post-1068-12986540069047_thumb.jpg

post-1068-12986540081331_thumb.jpg

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Ok, I got it. I knew about copyrights and all that all along (not as deeply as I do now tho). I know it is not right, but it happens.

I have many original designs, just that sometimes I base some designs on things that exist and are copyrighted or trademarked (i.e Challenger shirt).

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Guest Schramm

Joe,

Sorry about the misunderstanding I just took the "Mr Right aka Schramm" thing to be you were being a smart as_  if you say not I will belive you as I have always liked you.

The fact of the matter is I dont know alot on the subject, but when a question is posted I have been sending them over to Leo then I read his email and translate it to where everyone understands.  CW & TMs are very hard to understand. 

Making copies of a photo of a car is not illegal the car itself is not the subject it is what identifies the car which is the logo.  Sure you recognize the sleekness of the body and automatically know it is a corvette but without the logo it is just a sleek body and has nothing definate that says yes I am a corvette.  Personally I love your artwork, the camaro with the autobots thing is very cool.  When this first started I just wanted to use your shirt as an example and warn how you could get into a lot of trouble.  Trust me when I say this is an issue and a thread that needs to stay on the forum and even have its own area as I have sat back for a long time reading posts that are full of CW and TM issues and thought talking about it may help.

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My bad about that.

I edited it as now that I think about it, it could be interpreted in the wrong way.

Sorry and thanx for the info.

Joe

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Guest round2racing

Schramm, Joe, Thor, ........

I talked to a friend who is a paralegal and he did some research on this subject.  I also sent him a printout of this thread.  He states the following to me.

Copyright law is not cut and dry.  If you use an image, the plaintiff has to prove absolutely that it is their image.  This is easy if you use exactly the same wording and sizing.  Of course, if you use their image and include the circled c, bingo, you're guilty.

He said that you can cut copyright items, but only if you don't profit, in other words, you have to give them away.  I'm not in the business of doing that, so that is a negative there also.

He said the best bet is DON'T DO IT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.  Just like you said Schramm.  If you are unsure, don't do it.  He said to tell the customer that you can't infringe on copyright law, but you would be willing to create something original that is just for them.  If they say no, then refer them to the company and have them order the decals from the company, if the company will even sell them.

I cut a miller lite logo for a friend to put on his baggo boards.  I infringed, but it is not something I offer to anyone.  If a friend asks for something, I may or may not.  It all depends.  To offer to the general public.......no way!!!

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Hi I would like to add to this when you see lot of Graphic posted here and I  am not trying to get any thing started but they are about 50 percent of them copyrighted and people know this and still ask for more I have fond lot of them on the internet and I laugh becouse people say they don't use them if there copy right on them but they do..

And when you buy Graphic CDs you better read the fine print I have one that I got and after reading the fine print it stated that I could only use there graghic for five shirts after that I would have to pay them for using it was that fare to me it never stated on there site or any where untel I got the CD and the book it was in the book!!!!!

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I was trying to find a link I had to a case where a man actually circumvented copyright and trademark laws using a donation system.  He had a listing of donation levels, IE: $5, $7, and $10 and for each level of donation you were given the option to also pick from a series of shirts and other miscellaneous items with trademarked and copyrighted images on them.  One of the owners of one of the trademarked items tried to take him to court but the man won because he wasn't actually charging for the item, he was giving them away depending on the level of donation to his business.  The man had many original designs and things that weren't copyrighted or trademarked for sale but the items that had a trademark were only available with a donation and not able to be purchased outright.  This isn't something I'd suggest for anyone because it would be a hit-or-miss issue in court.  I'll keep looking for the link and I'll post it when I find it.

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I was trying to find a link I had to a case where a man actually circumvented copyright and trademark laws using a donation system.  He had a listing of donation levels, IE: $5, $7, and $10 and for each level of donation you were given the option to also pick from a series of shirts and other miscellaneous items with trademarked and copyrighted images on them.  One of the owners of one of the trademarked items tried to take him to court but the man won because he wasn't actually charging for the item, he was giving them away depending on the level of donation to his business.  The man had many original designs and things that weren't copyrighted or trademarked for sale but the items that had a trademark were only available with a donation and not able to be purchased outright.  This isn't something I'd suggest for anyone because it would be a hit-or-miss issue in court.  I'll keep looking for the link and I'll post it when I find it.

There's all kinds of ways you can do this.  Free stickers, charge for the bag, etc.  Keep in mind, they will just keep you in court until you give up.  Chances are they have a lot more money and more attorneys than you do.

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Guest Schramm

All the posts posted today are fine and dandy however they all still land you in court where you need an attorney ($1000's of dollars) to fight something that you made what $30 on?  Use logic!

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Man i wish this thread would be dropped...I think everyone knows the of breaking the law it's getting to be a bit soap boxish for me...

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Guest Schramm

Man i wish this thread would be dropped...I think everyone knows the of breaking the law it's getting to be a bit soap boxish for me...

This is a discussion board right?  This is one thread on a discussion board right?  Everyday there is new people coming to this board reading posts so what is the harm of this staying here?  If you dont care to read it dont click on it and eventually it will drop out of sight but the information will still be on the site for others to see.  There really must be something to the post as it has stayed up top for a while.

Where are you at in Illinois or Iowa?  I live in Spring Valley IL so we cannot be far away from each other as I am about 45 minutes from Iowa.

Rob

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Man i wish this thread would be dropped...I think everyone knows the of breaking the law it's getting to be a bit soap boxish for me...

This is a lot more interesting than the "Word Association Thread" and how long has that been going on. More relevant too.

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OK, so if Joe wanted to add the title "CAMARO" or "CHARGER" to his illustration, would that be enfringement?

Assuming he used an original font style and did not use any official logo with it.

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thanks for the post i have read it all ,being new this is good for me to read,

i think this should be read jmo,

if it helps keep one person from getting sued then this post is worth $1000's of dollars good job

thanks again ammo

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