WARNING TO EVERYONE!!!!

[deth502 39]

and even so, at least she can let us know if she won or lost?? even if the details cant be disclosed.

[NatDragon 0]

I wish there were some kind of logo royalty clearing house. Some way to download the logo legally for small shops. Like at some of the art websites. I mean it is free advertising for the company they shouldn't get their panties in such a knot over it. They should have some way where you say pay them $1 for the use (more if for several uses). I have only started doing decals, but it doesn't seem like you make a ton of profit on them; however, being on a car in public with potentially thousands or more people seeing it, the name recognition surely makes the manufacturer money, how can that be bad for the company?

How about making the plaintiff prove that the defendant had intent to harm by producing a couple of stickers?

[Daddy-o 0]

I mean it is free advertising for the company they shouldn't get their panties in such a knot over it. They should have some way where you say pay them $1 for the use (more if for several uses). <snip> however, being on a car in public with potentially thousands or more people seeing it, the name recognition surely makes the manufacturer money, how can that be bad for the company?

Not a horrible thought NatDragon, but 'how' a brand or trademark is used is more important than the pittance gained through royalty fees. It is more about protecting ones reputation and avoiding dilution and/or saturation of an identity. Not to be snarky, but to answer your last question, it could potentially be very bad. Logistical nightmare, negative exposure, commiditization of your company name and of course someone out there would figure out a way to make you liable if something goes wrong... very bad indeed!

Daddy-o

[sheister 1]

I haven't read all the posts for this thread. So if what I am about to say has been covered already, please excuse me. But this sounds like and extortion scam. They ask you to make a copyrighted logo , you do the work and then get official looking papers in the mail with a threat to sue you for a huge amount to scare you. Then they offer to settle for a less but still significant amount. In the heat of the moment you are grateful for this settlement  to get them off of your back and get a good nights sleep. You pay and these scam artists are laughing all the way to the bank. I would scrutinize this down to the last detail and make darn sure that they actually work for Black and Decker or some firm that actually represents them. I highly doubt that a company like Black and Decker has a huge problem with their logo being illegally reproduced to the point they need secret shoppers to pursue it. If it were a Fox logo or Chevy then maybe.

Further it seems more likely if they were to implement such a program, it would be far more efficient and more profitable to pursue larger companies to insure they get the full payment and not a settled amount. You can bet your bottom dollar this company is paid either entirely or a percentage of the settlement amount. Why would they pursue you for 1 logo violation (that is if this really is the real thing and not a scam). Finally if they ask you to do this work and seem as if they have the permission to have this logo reproduced. Is it your responsibility to check their credentials? Or do you have the right to reasonably assume they have this permission.  It was for a "sponsored" race team right?? Finally if this is a he said/she said thing. And nothing signed in terms of the work agreed upon, then how does anybody know what she said to assure you she had this permission to have this logo reproduced?  And I say reasonably because if it was just some joe blow off the street thats one thing. But if I am approached by a person whom represents themself  as the owner of a race team thats another.  If this the real deal and not a scam you can bet the whole con was planned to this way to lower your guard. I mean why would a race car team whom wasnt sponsored by DeWalt want that logo on their car??? Thats stupid!

In these hard economic times this really makes me angry. You should have gotten a warning not a lawsuit. It should have been a crackdown and not shakedown! Another hard working person swindled by either scam artists or  heartless company , in this day its hard to tell the difference between the two.

Good Luck

Sheister

[American And Proud 2]

The OP's (Original Poster) last post here was on page 8 July 23rd.

Their last post was July 31st and that was in another thread to say they did not like the uscutter apptape roller. (I like mine fine myself.)

They were last active on October 23rd but made no post.

[MaderDesign 3]

Would be nice to know what happened, they start this up and never finish.

[Rodger 527]

1 possible scenario ; a settlement has been made ... in most settlements , I think it is called a non-disclosure agreement . It let's the shake down artists have more power for the next victim .

" IF " that is what happened , seems we could get told they can't disclose anything

another scenario is it is still waiting for trial . It is too expensive to have a lawyer by the hour & when you have a lawyer by the set price, they want to get rid of it as fast as possible & try to get it settled regardless of merit .

[sheister 1]

Seriously this whole thing sounds like a scam. They may have some dirty lawyer or paralegal go and file papers ect. But who checks their credentials at the courthouse? Just because papers have been filed that doesnt make any of this official. Unless I got confirmation from Black and Decker that this was infact the real thing, I wouldnt coperate with any of this. I would also inform Black and Decker that this company is masquerading themselves as members of a race team claiming to be sponsored by them. In my previous post I stated that the whole rouse was designed to get the graphics dealer to lower his/her gaurd and make the design without checking credentials. Imagine how the success rate would drop if an old lady or young kid  just asked for this as a  christmas present? They wouldnt have near the success rate! This is a grey area scam no doubt. I would fight them on principle alone. What are they gonna do sue me an win for 4500. Fine in $10.00 per month installments!

[SouthernGraffix 0]

thanks for the info im new to this to. i'm trying to get info on copyrights so i could use certain logos legaly.

[MZ SKEETER 4,708]

it's a matter of MONEY TALKS....  or you could be shelling alot of your own money out for legal fees on copyright infringement. 

[serviceflags 1]

Hello - I was reading this, and while I've never been given a C&D letter or been sued, we reproduce logos and marks all the time in our shop (to my knowledge only to the owners i.e., local businesses), but this made me think and so I've started a practice that any time I reproduce something that may be a trademark or copyright, I have them sign the following (this wasn't done by a lawyer, just something I drafted, but if I did get sued, I think they would have a hard time getting any damages from me - I also copy the mark on the page they sign - again I don't know if it would hold up in court - and I'm not giving legal advice so please don't sue me if you get sued if you do this and it doesn't save you lol - I took out my company name and inserted "company name"):

Company name and any D/B/A's (herein referred to as "Company Name") provides in part custom services to persons and businesses which may include reproducing a company's trademark or copyrighted logo.  Company Name adheres to laws regarding the reproduction of copyrighted works and will not reproduce a protected trademark or copyright without authorization.

Company Name has been requested by you to produce a product that bears a mark that may be copyrighted or trademarked.

By affixing your signature and authorizing its reproduction, you acknowledge that you:

1) Are the owner of the trademark or copyrighted logo; or

2) Are requesting the reproduction of the trademark or copyrighted logo on behalf of the holder or owner of the trademark or copyrighted logo and the reproduction of the trademark or logo by Service Flags is authorized and done so with consent; or

3) Hold a release and authorization to have the trademark or copyrighted logo reproduced on behalf of the holder; and

4) Are authorized and agree to hold harmless Company Name for the reproduction of the reproduced trademark or copyrighted logo, and personally accept any liability or damages that may be levied against Company Name if the requested reproduction of the trademark or copyrighted logo is determined to be unauthorized and damages are awarded against Company Name.

Acknowledged by:_________________________ Print Name:_________________________

Mailing Address: _____________________________________________________________

Dated:___________________ Witness:_______________________________________

A copy of the trademark or copyrighted material appears below:

[Rodger 527]

That may hold up in court & certainly would show proper intent but there is a legal term I can't remember right now that means 2 parties agreeing that something is legal does not make it legal . A $400 an hour told my buddy that when dealing with a mobile home on private property instead of a mobile home park issue .The county permit office had given the correct permit for over 20 years ( $100 a year ) , but when the county zoning department got involved .. the mobile home was illegal on private property regardless of the permit . I think the law requires the person/company reproducing the copyrighted stuff to have " proper permission/authorization " from the copyright holder , not anybody walking thru the door . To dot the i & cross the t legally precise , you need smething from the copyright owner . If you don't have that .. just a waiver from somebody pretending to be the owner , the copyright law was broken .

[lueman 19]

Everything Rojer said is correct with one exception the copyright owner can go after the reproducer of the copyrighted thing but now with this document he can then in turn go after the person who caused the company to be in breach.Also it shows there was no willful intent so it may protect againt punitive damages.

[midwaste 4]

Everything Rojer said is correct with one exception the copyright owner can go after the reproducer of the copyrighted thing but now with this document he can then in turn go after the person who caused the company to be in breach.Also it shows there was no willful intent so it may protect againt punitive damages.

That's the point of any boilerplate legal, to transfer liability.  A person can walk in the shop with an email printed out from the company stating that use/reproduction of the logo is ok, but what if it was photoshopped?  Where do sign shops draw the line?

By some people's logic, there is absolutely no safe case for reproduction of logos other than the freaking CEO of the copyright holding company walking in the door, producing identification, notarizing a written statement, while a copyright judge looks on as the whole thing is recorded on video.

[kimmy 0]

HOOOOOOOOly crap. I just read all 13 pages of this, and wow. Really, i mean WOW. insane stuff. I wondered about copyright issues as i've already been approached to cut some yamaha stickers...but now? OH HELLLLLLLL no.  well, from what i see, I can cut them and give them as a gift, but not sell for profit, huh?  I was asked by a friend...but when someone asks them and then that someone is approached, No way to be sure they won't roll over on me. Scary! Poor Lara. wondered how it turned out for her?

So, here is the question of the day. how do we know what is copyrighted and what is not? 

Example: i want to cut a "cowboy up" sticker...well? is someone going to come jump me in a dark alley? this is really scary stuff!  i liked that a written disclaimer should be issued and signed....example: local gardening business wants me to letter their trailer. It's their business and their trailer. I letter it, with their decal, then later find out they're subsidiary's of a larger company and they jump me.

How do you protect yourself?

Kim

[Rodger 527]

Hi ,

You will get as many opinions as the number of people you ask & that includes asking lawyers . My opinion is that the Judge deciding the case will have the only important opinion & decision   . The safe way is to make what you design  ... reproducing anything designed by someone else can get scary . Some companies diligently pursue copyright infringement or let legal companies like the company that went after Laura pursue action for a % of the recovery ( out of court settlements add up ) . I make whatever I want for myself or friends , but would not sell a copied decal . It really gets down to the cost to pursue copyright infringement & the cost to defend a civil suit claiming copyright infringement . I think Laura charged 95 cents for the decal that got a civil suit filed against her .  Laws are laws.. they don't need to be reasonable , make sense or logical . 1 member said even if not copyrighted , a designer has copyright protection .

[sniderman 8]

wow,,, in support of you i will never buy b&d or dewlt ever, hope all is well

[Dakotagrafx 7,297]

Last D&D Drill I bought went back in 2 hrs and got a milwalkee.  Stacey was a little hard on the B&D  and it didn't hold up well

[orbitgrfx 0]

To everyone here on this forum, by all means, suspect any unsolicited requests for 'sponsor decals'. The corporate customer/product relations departments within companies will send out ....yes, for free, ....decals to anyone who asks.

When I built a desert runner from a 70 Bronco, I had inquired to many, many different parts and other sponsors for decals since I told them I was completing a custom build on my truck, they ALL gladly sent me decals...and not just one, either.

Do it for your own or closely held friends/acquaintances, but be very cautious, indeed of unsolicited requests. The anti-piracy thugs want your money, and the system wants a pound of flesh.

There are too many ideas out there to make a living from, no need to risk it all for a $10 job. 

[tinaski 11]

HOOOOOOOOly crap. I just read all 13 pages of this, and wow. Really, i mean WOW. insane stuff. I wondered about copyright issues as I've already been approached to cut some yamaha stickers...but now? OH HELLLLLLLL no.  well, from what i see, I can cut them and give them as a gift, but not sell for profit, huh?  I was asked by a friend...but when someone asks them and then that someone is approached, No way to be sure they won't roll over on me. Scary! Poor Lara. wondered how it turned out for her?

So, here is the question of the day. how do we know what is copyrighted and what is not?  

Example: i want to cut a "cowboy up" sticker...well? is someone going to come jump me in a dark alley? this is really scary stuff!  i liked that a written disclaimer should be issued and signed....example: local gardening business wants me to letter their trailer. It's their business and their trailer. I letter it, with their decal, then later find out they're subsidiary's of a larger company and they jump me.

How do you protect yourself?

Kim

How do you protect yourself - get permition no other way around it that is if you want to do it right.

below is the FAQ from http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork

in short if you didn't make it and you don't have permition you CANT copy it.

the legal side - all the DVDs that everyone has that they bought and payed for cant be cut into vinyl or printed or reproduced in any way shape or form. with the exception of having permition from the owner NOT the seller.

we don't do anything that is popular brands ever because of it -

now the reality - the owner of the yellow smiley face  - who owns that don't know. is anyone going to claim to own it? don't think so it could even be open source - if you know what that is the copy permitions very under those terms - they range from do what ever you want with them to you can use it just don't sell them. we are heavy into open source products from designs to fonts to cutting and designing software to operating systems

more reality - can you cut a logo of ford legally NO but can you cut it and put it in a friends basement behind his bar for no charge legally NO - but who is going to say anything - who will know that it is not bought from a seller that is registered with ford to have the correct rights to sell there product no one

but if its popular and you can buy a legitimate item with that logo - think twice before doing it.

What is copyright?

Copyright is a form of protection grounded in the U.S. Constitution and granted by law for original works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Copyright covers both published and unpublished works.

What does copyright protect?

Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

How is a copyright different from a patent or a trademark?

Copyright protects original works of authorship, while a patent protects inventions or discoveries. Ideas and discoveries are not protected by the copyright law, although the way in which they are expressed may be. A trademark protects words, phrases, symbols, or designs identifying the source of the goods or services of one party and distinguishing them from those of others.

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section

[orbitgrfx 0]

No one owns the patent/trademark on the smileyface, as it has never been applied for. It is public domain.

The insurance guy who first drew the icon on an advertising sign never gave it thought to trademark it. The rest is history.

[tinaski 11]

No one owns the patent/trademark on the smileyface, as it has never been applied for. It is public domain.

The insurance guy who first drew the icon on an advertising sign never gave it thought to trademark it. The rest is history.

as it is stated in there FAQ it doesnt have to be applied for - but if he chooses to make it public domain or open source then everyone can use it - that was just an example of a design that everyone knows

but i thought a bumb made that in the 60s with some help from forest gump

When is my work protected?

Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?

No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section

[tinaski 11]

Lol its ok I'm thick skinned I don't mean to piss anyone off.

If ya want feel free to pm me your opinion I will listen and if I'm out of line with my post either I will reply with my argument or I will agree with ya

Yes the FAQ was copy paste

[Rodger 527]

+1 for thick skin & good arguements ( which requires listening !!! ) 

[NukleoN 34]

Lol its ok I'm thick skinned I don't mean to piss anyone off.

If ya want feel free to pm me your opinion I will listen and if I'm out of line with my post either I will reply with my argument or I will agree with ya

Yes the FAQ was copy paste

Where did you copy that from? I see lots of spelling errors. The formatting could use some work as well to separate your comments from the source text.