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devine_design

Serial Port or USB

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...I unhook and hookup 10+ cutters a day all via USB - never a problem.

Can you send me one of THOSE cutters?Mine is a persnickety little thing on USB.

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Guest HowardI

One of the nice things I have to point out is the new FTDI driver provides many more settings that a standard com port doesn't have.  These settings DO let us fix the problems of stray cut in the middle of a job and the freeze in the middle of a job.  I've used them repeatedly to fix problems with the issues that are solved by switching to serial.  But then again I've had some systems that do show those problems by switching from serial to USB and using the settings to fix it.

Personally I do prefer the USB connection but I am also aware that it's very configuration specific and that there are times when serial is better than USB.  There are also times when USB is better than serial. 

I take each case with an open minded approach because they are all different.

my .02c worth.  ;D

Howard Irwin

Support Specialist

US Cutter

425 481-3555 Ext. 7105

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Personally I do prefer the USB connection but I am also aware that it's very configuration specific and that there are times when serial is better than USB.  There are also times when USB is better than serial. 

Yep- go with what works for your particular computer.        ;D

Just because USCutter's computers seldom have issues with USB, has nothing to do with whether or not a particular customers computer may. Nobody has the same hardware and software configuration on their computer as the next.

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I made sure when i replaced my mobo that i got one with a serial port as it has never once given me troubles...And has been perfect plug and play on all of my 3 computers i have used it on..

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I have yet to see some explain how USB causes vinyl to get slashed... They are relieved to to use serial and to find that they don't experience this issue or just not anywhere nearly as often. This is a poor reason to say USB was the issue. My experience has lead me to believe that a poor interconnection over any medium causes this issue. I think a lot of people get easily confused about identifying the USB port in their software, additionally I think it confuses them that if they unplug the USB the port disappears. In fact if they unplug the USB hey will most likely have to re-affirm it's selection in the config window. If they choose a different USB port on their computer to plug it into then they are facing a possible change in the port entirely.

All of this may seem like a nuisance but in fact is logical and makes troubleshooting a lot easier... A serial port has no rhyme or reason. It can't account for itself. If a serial port is damaged, it does nothing. If a serial port is not connected, it does nothing. If a serial port is connected, it does nothing. It is completely passive.

Overall what you have to realize is the serial port no longer exists on an extreme majority of computers being sold today, not at all on Macs for that matter, plus it is slow and has transfer speed & data limitations. The reason why you get sliced pages is because a serial controller chip is responsible for processing your data. USB is pretty robust and compared to serial it is a giant. Hooking USB up to a serial controller is like hooking up a firehouse to your kitchen sink. This is the main reason problems exist. Rest assured this is changing, by next year you will probably see very few serial options out there and more fully implemented USB controllers on cutters.

-BD

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  One point that makes no sense:

serial is slow? Maybe,but it will send the data faster than the cutter can cut it.The speed of data transfer is a Mute point. It doesn't matter. The cutter cuts from its own memory.So why the need for speed?

It is VERY rare to hear from anyone that switched from USB to Serial and didn't see an improvement. As far as I am concerned,that says it all.

Oh,and a few years ago,the Pcut didn't have a serial connection..only USB...then they put the Serial connection back into the Pcut. Wonder why? Maybe the engineers who designed the cutter know something?

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I don't need to wonder why... The reason they did is the same reason Roland had to put it back on their GX24 ... People complained because they were used to using it and some folks are running relatively older machines with limited USB support to cut with. This is especially true in some sign shops that have been open 10+ years...

John your thinking I mean speed in the sense of faster... I mean speed in the sense of compatibility...

Plus your avoiding my most powerful points... I just got done all last week meeting with top Roland Engineers and they are perplexed as to why people still use the serial port.. Believe me these guys would not be all about USB if it was not the way to be.

I love this board! Great debate, thanks for the reply John, slow morning for us here the phones are hardly ringing...

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YOu wanna know why I like Serial Better than USB? Because you can LOCK SERIAL DOWN .The connection itself. Nice and tight. USB,you cannot. With cutters, the vibration will cause the connection to drop. I have seen it,and I have proven it to myself and others. Brushing against the USB cable would drop the connection . When the cutter manufacturers figure out a way to make a good tight connection...this won't happen. Until then, you can do what I did and use duct tape.

Of course there's the issue of needing drivers so that the USB will emulate a serial connection...the little CD that is often left out of the box... With serial, you plug it in and chose the right com port and go.

I never saw any sense in making something more work than it should be.

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You describe a perfect serial scenario... In a perfect USB scenario you plug and go as well...

The problem is if their is an issue with serial you won't ever know... With USB it either will not show up, will not recognize or display in the device manager, or it will recognize and then stop recognizing... At the very least you know you have a problem... Get my drift? Serial does not give you any feedback, the cable may be nice and tight but it could be a faulty cable, it could have a bent pin, the port itself could be bad, at any rate a serial connection will never let you know something is wrong...

I completely agree with you on being able to screw down the connection...

-Brandon

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You describe a perfect serial scenario... In a perfect USB scenario you plug and go as well...

The problem is if their is an issue with serial you won't ever know... With USB it either will not show up, will not recognize or display in the device manager, or it will recognize and then stop recognizing... At the very least you know you have a problem... Get my drift? Serial does not give you any feedback, the cable may be nice and tight but it could be a faulty cable, it could have a bent pin, the port itself could be bad, at any rate a serial connection will never let you know something is wrong...

I completely agree with you on being able to screw down the connection...

-Brandon

I wouldn't know...I have never had a serial connection fail to work.

Have things changed in the software? Do you no longer need to load the USB drivers? THat seems to the the # 1 problem with people.

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USB installs automatically every time... If it doesn't the majority of the time something is wrong. Otherwise they just did not que the auto-install properly.

-BD

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The problem with USB and I know from first hand as I do hotline and repair for Brother inkjet printers in Holland is people think it is all plug and play for ALL devices.

That could be correct for real printers and all kind of USB stuff as they are added as standard in every new windows version.

Just hook it up and guess what you can print in one minute.

Now back to plotters.

Have you ever seen a standard HPGL driver for a Pcut or other cutters?.......................... I thought so. :)

Problem is two ways.

1]No good manual or nothing at all with a machine.

Place a sticker over the USB port (transparant otherwise they cant find it) with the text "Install driver first"

Since we do this with our Brother printers the call rate has reduced with 15%.

2] users not reading a manual

If USB is installed correctly and drivers for it are up to date then it should work.

And remember to use a good shielded not longer then 1,8 meter USB cable.

There are China version cables of 10 US$ cents and 4 US $ and there is a real difference in shielding which can cause all kind of rare problems.

Paco

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USB installs automatically every time... If it doesn't the majority of the time something is wrong. Otherwise they just did not que the auto-install properly.

-BD

There is some confusion here and I'll clear it up. You don't just plug in the cutter and go. You have to install the USB drivers first. They will either be on a small CD or you download them from USC site. But you have to manually install them. They are not on the same CD with the software.

And you have to do this on every computer,or any time your computer crashes and you have to re-install windows. The USB drivers for the cutter are not built into the software or windows.

as has been stated, this is not always clear when you get the cutter. The instructions leave a lot to be desired unless something has changed since I got mine.

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Yep, and no drivers to install, or keep up to date, or even modify the settings of to Serial Printer, with a direct Serial connection. Plugs in, and you can screw it in to place so the connection won't drop if bumped or rattled loose due to the virbration of the low end units when they cut. Set the cuttng software to COM1 (usually) and away you go.

B has a point as far as what the future holds for cutters and USB, but for now: maybe USB is much more stable on a GraphTec or Roland, but certainly not with the shoddy Chinese imports.

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I've had a few PC technicians tell me that the physical USB connection is a problem with hardware.  These guys aren't talking about plotters, they know nothing about plotters and probably in most case never seen one.  It's a poorly designed plug/connection, it works loose as Banner John says, it doesn't make for a good solid, positive connection.  Forget about the driver issue, it's about stray cuts after the plotter has been running for a period of time, sometime months.  I heard people talk static as the problem, this maybe right in some cases, but I would tend to look at the USB connection in a few of those complaints.  I've had desktop printers, Keyboards & mouse play up on USB connections, it's the link between the hardware.

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I don't even have my cutter yet, but the problem seems crystal clear to me, intuitively. USB works amazingly well, *on stuff which isn't vibrating like crazy as a vinyl cutter would*.

Serial, which I admittedly would never use in 2009, is good as mentioned because the physical connection itself is rock solid, and can be locked down tightly. Otherwise, I would never dream of using a serial port in this day and age.

So, the problem is not USB technology itself, it's the fact that a cutter vibrates, and the specific USB ports on the LP cutters are probably loose and/or any USB port wouldn't deal well with all that vibration. We know some cutters vibrate more than others based on their size, parts and design.

The anecdotal evidence here is that many users solve their dropped communication errors by switching to serial. The proof comes when a user can replicate said dropped-communication by going back to USB and fixing it again by returning to a serial connection.

I think USB technology is far superior to serial, but only if that connection isn't compromised by some furiously vibrating cutter.

Now, this theory could possibly be falsified if lots of people experienced dropped/errant cuts using a serial connection. I would imagine most people having this issue were running USB, though that doesn't mean *all* USB users will have this error. Could be slight variations in the USB ports shipped with the U.S. Cutters? There is also the issue of where the cutter is, whether it's on a desk or stand and other variables affecting which might affect the physical USB connection.

Anyhoot, seems like those who do have issues with USB have a clear fix: Use the serial connection. That said, people also need to realize that static is a mitigating factor, but if someone is having a rash of problems and they suddenly stop when switching to serial, there might be something to the anecdotal evidence.

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